HLN host Nancy Grace has been credited with making the Casey Anthony case a national story. She has been outspoken in her belief that Anthony is guilty of murdering her daughter, despite a jury's verdict. She's also a former prosecutor with strong opinions about what went on in the Florida courtroom in the past few weeks. She spoke with CNN.com about how she would have tried the case, the "CSI effect" on juries and why she doesn't "give a fig" about what Anthony's defense team thinks about her.
Grace: As Iāve always said since 1984, when I started trying cases, you win or lose your case - itās all over at the end of voir dire (jury selection). Iāve always believed that. Itās true. I think this jury hamstrung the state. The state absolutely put up a good case and I get real fed up when I hear this is a circumstantial case. Most cases are circumstantial because rarely do people commit felony crimes in the open. Murder, armed robbery, you do it in private, in secret, so very rarely is there an eyewitness or direct evidence to a crime.
CNN: Watching a case like this, do you miss the courtroom and prosecuting cases?
Grace: I always miss the courtroom. I miss the courtroom all the time because the courtroom gave me immediate gratification. I knew Iād done something worthwhile when I put someone behind bars or represented crime victims, I knew I had a done a good thing by speaking for people who couldnāt speak for themselves. I donāt get that immediate gratification from being on TV.
CNN: As a former prosecutor, if you could retry this case, how would you do it differently?
Grace: I think they did such a very good job itās hard to attack anything they did. I think maybe I wouldāve taken a different tack in jury selection but thatās really it. There were some obvious problem jurors: You had one on there with an arrest for DUI; another with an arrest for drug paraphernalia; one whose sister and her boyfriend beat up their father; one juror who said she could not judge. Why the heck would you not want someone off the jury who cannot judge? The jury is the sole judge of facts, evidence and the law. Who the heck wants someone who canāt judge? They tried to get rid of them but were not successful. I think the jury was snakebitten from the get-go.
CNN: What do you think is the most important piece of evidence that the jury never saw or heard?
Grace: I donāt believe they saw all of the audiotapes or heard all the videotapes (of Casey Anthonyās jailhouse phone calls). I think the so-called bodyguard or bail bondsman had a lot to offer, his discussions with tot mom when she was referring to Caylee in the past tense before her body had been found, her being very flip about Caylee, being more concerned about a hot guy flirting with her on Facebook. Evidence of that nature.
There was another inmate that she allegedly discussed chloroform with, the fact there was absolutely an inmate who talked about a child floating in a pool in the backyard while the family was in the house ā¦ she lifted that story and transposed it onto Caylee. The fact that that inmate may not have had direct discussions with tot mom does not matter. ā¦ She did discuss it behind bars and within earshot of tot mom when they were in jail, on the cellblock at same time. I understand why the state didnāt do it, because when you start dealing with snitches and inmates it can blow up in your face.
CNN: What was the biggest weakness in the stateās forensic evidence, if any?
Grace: The single biggest weakness was the state didnāt have a cause of death. That is not required - there have been many, many cases with murder 1 convictions without any body. But the fact that the defendant can get rid of a body or let a body (be) hidden for so long that you cannot determine a cause of death is not a reason a defendant should get a benefit or a gold star orĀ A-plus. I think the fact they didnāt have a cause of death hurt them because the jury could not understand the case or take it in. Juries have been watching too much "CSI" - they want murder weapon, DNA, fingerprints. In this case, there was no blood, no murder weapon. They wanted things that didnāt exist. They wanted a murder weapon ā the murder weapon was tot momās hands. I also think the jury didnāt understand the law or felony murder. All said, it was a bad jury and I do not think it reflects on the case the state put up.
CNN: What did you think of the defense case? Did their experts neutralize the stateās experts?
Grace: I donāt think much of the defense case. However, when it gets so complex for jurors, the experts cancel themselves out.
CNN: How would you have handled Cindy Anthony? Should the state consider charging her with perjury?
Grace: I know she committed perjury but I donāt think a jury would convict her. I think thatās a very tough decision for authorities to make ... but no doubt what she said on the stand was not true.
CNN: People credit your involvement in highlighting the case early on. Looking back, is there anything you would have done differently?
Grace: The only thing I wouldāve done differently is put on my hip boots and gone down to Florida and looked for Caylee myself.
CNN: What did you think of Cheney Masonās statements that lawyers like yourself engaged in media assassination for theĀ past three years?
Grace: I donāt recall him mentioning me by name but I think heās more likely targeting local lawyers and members of the Florida bar who were discussing the case in the community. However, on the off chance he is, I really donāt give a fig. I mean, every time you take a stand on anything or stand up for anything, somebodyās going to dislike you and the fact that one of tot momās defense lawyers doesnāt like me doesnāt concern me in the least. I donāt like them much either.
CNN: Do you think itās unethical for lawyers like yourself to make such pointed statements about a defendantās guilt or innocence on national television?
Grace: Let me see, if Iām correct, the Constitution has a little thing called the First Amendment which allows for freedom of speech and under freedom of speech, unless it is defamatory, Iām pretty much allowed to speak my mind, and the fact Iām an upstanding member of the Georgia and D.C. bars does not cause me to lose my freedom of speech. As a matter of fact, if you were to read the minutes that were taken down as the Constitution was being written and passed, our fathers wanted courtrooms large enough for the whole community to sit in and see. No closed-door justice, no secret justice, and to me, that ensures a lively discourse about our justice system and whatās going on in the courtroom. So the answer to your question is no. I donāt consider discussing court cases unethical. In fact, I consider it healthy.
CNN: You have said that our system of justice requires us to respect the jury's decision, but since the verdict you have continued to maintain that Casey Anthony is guilty and that the jurors erred in their decision. When is it time to come to terms with the fact that the jurors disagreed with you and move on?
Grace: Iāve already come to grips with the fact they disagree with me, and I donāt agree with them. But that doesnāt mean I have to agree with their decision. They were wrong: Tot mom murdered her daughter.
CNN: If you had access to the jurors, what would you ask them?
Grace: I would ask them why they did what they did. Iād like to know why. Not that itās going to make any difference. Thereās no way to explain their verdict, no logical way. Maybe thatās the problem. Iām trying to apply logic to people who were illogical in their jury deliberations.
CNN: Is there anything Casey Anthony can do to redeem herself? What would you like to see her do?
Grace: Iād like to see her admit sheās guilty and go to jail. Other than that, Iām not in the business of forgiving. Thatās up to the lord. Iām just relieved that I believe, that I know, Caylee is in a place where her mother cannot hurt her anymore.
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