There's no easy way to define Occupy Wall Street. That's part of what's made it hard for the media – and those involved in the protests – to wrap their arms around the movement.
Many people have questioned the movement's legitimacy, since it has no clear leadership, nor a clear list of demands or solutions to the economic inequalities it rails against.
It also raises endgame questions.
What would it actually take to say, yes, this movement of protest, spurred by a large group of people across the country and world, was a successful movement? Or is it too early to even assess what impact it may have had?
Would success need to come in the form of large reforms being passed regarding jobs, unemployment and economic policies that affect Wall Street – or even of President Obama losing re-election? Would it be adjustment of our current government model to one that more accurately reflects what protesters want?
Jeffrey D. Sachs, an expert in economics, visited the Occupy Wall Street crowd in New York's Zuccotti Park early in October and suggested that success could come in the form of a change in what groups politicians look to for influence (hint: not the 1% that can shell out money for dinners with the politicians). He also said the protesters needed to elect a government that will represent the 99%.
"What are we going to do when we get it? We are going to re-establish government for the people. The people need help and the government is there to help. So with all that income of the 1%, there's some pretty good things to do."
Sachs suggests that the 99% could make a lot of changes with the money of the 1% – including spreading the wealth to close the financial equality gap, while taxing the rich in order to use the money to fix our struggling economy as well as bringing our troops home.
Some have suggested you wouldn't need a re-established government or new policies as a whole to be a success – just a defeat for Obama.
Jonah Goldberg, an American Enterprise Institute visiting fellow, wrote for the National Review about the Occupy Wall Street movement's potential to have political success like the tea party:
"There's only one way the Occupy Wall Street movement can become like the tea parties, and that’s for Barack Obama to lose in 2012. Why? Because Obama is the most divisive figure in American politics today. ...
If Occupy Wall Street is a sincere, organic, grassroots movement for radical change and overturning the status quo, it can’t be 100 percent behind the guy who’s been running the country for the last three years.
Moreover, Democrats had near total control of the government for Obama’s first two years. Together, Obama and congressional Democrats already got their Wall Street and student-loan reforms, their health-care overhaul, and a huge stimulus. And yet Occupy Wall Street is still furious with the political status quo. Does anyone believe Obama can both run on his record and co-opt the Occupy Wall Streeters?"
Joseph Lazzaro, the U.S. editor at the International Business Times, notes that while some on the right may believe unseating Obama is the key to ending the movement, it won't end what jump-started the movement.
"Tea party supporters, and other conservatives, argue that if only President Barack Obama is defeated, or more Republicans are elected to Congress (and more Democrats voted out of Congress) or more unions are broken up, that will be the end of Occupy Wall Street, and the nation's economic and social problems.
In sum, the U.S.'s economic and social problems are there, Occupy Wall Street headlines or not."
NPR dedicated a segment to asking people what they felt would spell success for the movement. One listener suggested it would come in the form of presenting the movement's own political candidates and a voting bloc. Another suggested success was simply about raising greater awareness and continuing the path the movement is on. Others suggested that it meant specific reform in campaign finance laws and bankruptcy regulations.
So, you've got passing reform, ousting the leader of our country, and engagement in the political process as options. But is a defined, significant goal like that the only way to measure success? Does it depend on whether the Occupy protesters can literally weather the cold fronts that are upon them? Or is it possible you could already call the movement a winner because it has invigorated a group of people, who may not have been politically active before, to stand up and say they are unhappy with the status quo?
Don McNay, the author of "Wealth Without Wall Street: A Main Street Guide to Making Money" wrote for the Huffington Post that the movement has allowed that group and the silent majority that supports it to have a wider voice in the public discourse.
"The days of clamping down free speech with violence are over. The average citizen, using social media, has too many ways to communicate, organize and stand up to oppression.
I think it will be difficult for the Occupy movement to maintain its outdoor protests through the cold winter months, but I expect the seeds of their protest to have an impact for years.
Already, they have had an immediate victory."
While we may not know, or be able to really put into words, what a finish line looks like for the Occupy movement, there are a few things that can give us some insight on how its ideas are entering the national dialogue. Google took the time to dedicate a blog post to looking at what search terms might tell us about the movement's impact.
"Search interest for (Occupy Wall Street) jumped ahead of the (tea party) on September 24, and hasn’t looked back. In a historical context, when viewing the snapshot of their nascent birth, we can see the peak of (Occupy Wall Street) has slightly more interest in American than searches for the (tea party) did during the groups peak in 2009."
So what would success for the movement look like to you? Do you think there is a finish line in sight? Let us know your thoughts below.
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Lets set an example: Computer Associates top 1% layed off 500 of 99%ers, if OWS can focus on that to have the feds investigate what happened to the money and if the 1%ers pocketed it with some BS excuse. If those 1%ers can join Sanjay Kumar in the 6×6, other companies will stop doing the same. a Big Win for OWS
The first measure of success is eliminating the GOP from the political system and putting measures in place to keep them out permanently.
The second measure of success is to overhaul the tax system so that there are absolutely no loopholes anywhere, and the people that decide on what a loophole is and isn't are the 99%.
The 3rd measure is putting laws in and enforcing them via the 99% that prevents any and all business and corporations and anybody making over 50K a year to make and donations to a political campaign.
The 4th measure any and all businesses keeping their corporate accounts open so that the public can view them at any given time either by internet or by walking in, no questions asked, no fees, no hassle.
The 5th measure is the 99% now decide which politicians, corporate heads, bosses, executives, banks and the like in the past have partaken in criminal activities, and decide on their punishment. This does not enter the actual "legal" system, the 99% decide who gets punished and what the punishment is. Don't like it, too bad. No proof needed, no questions asked.
That is only the beginning.
LOL
You're a bigoted fool.
LOL from a group that wants government to stop loopholes yet want their college loans wiped away clean. Hypocrisy at its best. Occupy your parents house and get a job.
Another person lilke Adam Balm who can not handle tru freedom, where all can express their believes. You do not have to like the GOP, but why get rid of them? We need different views to make this country great! We also need to find common ground, which is what really has made this county great! You need to accept others views even if they make you sick. because your views most likely make them sick. The best is when you both give until what is best is at a common understanding!. Hoping that others are destroyed or gone only makes you sick and you will never fin peace.
You sound broke and looking for a handout. Hey, are you a Mac or PC user? Why don't you protest Apple and Microsoft? They have made billions and record profits yet the 99%-ers aren't crying about them. Instead you're comfy and typing on a computer, using the thing that is part of Wall Street wealth (or greed, as 99%-ers tend to look at things). GTFOH.
If you only had a brain...
Louis, Congratulations. With your insipid post, you've just advocated a totalitarian state and the dissolution of the American way of life, the capitalist system, and the tenets of the American legal system. What did you use for your model? North Korea? Yeah, that place has worked out real well.
Funny!
Sounds to me like you are a dictator, just like Castro. Maybe you should move to Cuba. Idiot!
What's the second step? Crown you king. You, Sadom Husane, and Kadofy got it goin on boss man. I'd hate to see you with weapons of mass destruction.
Louis – I posted a great response to each of your items, but, as usual, CNN chose not to post it.
So you're saying that success will be forcing your opinions on the rest of the populace regardless of what they want or need.
Thanks for showing us what OWS is really all about.
Can we start with eliminating idiots from public forums or is it to much to ask?
You just answered that question, P.Y.
louis obviously doesnt speak for any but the agent provocateurs. we arent against the GOP we arent against the dems. we are changing the entire system, the entire process. this is not your grandfathers movement
dont listen to tools like louis.go to the source. OccupyTogether.org OccupythePlanet.org NYCGA.net
Lolreallynow, Louis isn't a group. He's an idiot. If you had brains, you could figure out that he's not a representative of anyone but himself, and certainly not of the OWS.
You want to eliminate GOP because they are not your party? The GOVT was set up with a two party system to speak to all the people. Sounds like you want one party dictatorship, like Gadaffi had, what nonsense.
Get over yourself, with your partisan one party allegiance. You are part of the problem, blindly voting for members of Democrat party, rather than the individual candidate. That one party craziness seems to exist with Democrat voters to an extreme. So narrow-minded you're hopeless.
Wrong you liberal tard...the first measure of success is you elimination yourself from the gene pool. I have never BEEN able to have a logical conversation with a liberal it is IMPOSSIBLE. They never listen to facts and when you give them cold hard facts they sputter and change the subject and when you call them on it they cuss at you and say dumb stuff like it must be rush Limbaugh or they accuse you of being racist. Then they shout over you when you try to talk LOGIC. Yes, my friend having a LOGICAL conversation with a liberal like sucking on rock and expecting to get water out of it.
Not sure what the goal is.
A GREAT NATION?
A nation with a working caps lock key.
Success is a working caps lock key.
Your work is done.
yes , ,it is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sure it is
yes
Yes... This is what good government looks like. People rising up against abuse.
We already have a great nation. Unfortunately, we elected a president who doesn't think so and he wants to change it into Detroit.
It'll get fixed in November of 2012. You betcha!
It has been for over 200 years, then a LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE began to try to downgrade us to third world status. The trend will be reversed in 2012.
success is that the world now knows we have a bunch a educated dunces that want every free. This is the change obama started
Absolutely stupid. Didn't you read the article? It said: "If Occupy Wall Street is a sincere, organic, grassroots movement for radical change and overturning the status quo, it can’t be 100 percent behind the guy who’s been running the country for the last three years."
That should be obvious to everyone with a brain. Do you think that Obama wants his historical legacy to be that during his administration Americans on the right and left protested the state of affairs in the US? Yes, that is exactly the kind of thing Obama wants to be remembered for.
The truth of the matter is that Obama promised hope and change during his election campaign and then gave us more of the same crap that we have seen from our government in decades. Only truly stupid people still believe that Republicans = right and Democrats = left when they are really like two turds floating in the same toilet.
Now that's a mature response. Fight dumbness with dumbness?
We wont be satisfied until the Banks remove themselves from our government. If the same people who control the general flow of money are making the rules then of course they are not gonna benefit us. There should be a seperation of business and government. Not to mention the gov scare tactics in order to keep the general public in check.
Intelligence hasn't worked. So why not?
So you're a fighter?
Duh, me liberal..screw poopyhead...it must be Rush limbah and conservatives...yea cause saving money and getting a job is stoopid.
A GREAT NATION??? to when it was we the people FOR the people??? is THAT what you mean?
Have fun gassing up your SUV without Texas and Louisiana.
No one needs a gas-guzzling SUV and no state needs oil companies destroying their land, air, and water and killing the fish, the water animals, and the entire fishing indiustry. The last oil spill BP had in LA is still not cleaned up. I guess since it doesn't affect your daily life – you don't care – just give your corrupt oil company-buying Republican gas.
So you plan on taking Texas and Louisiana with you when you go back to crazytown?
Easily dealt with again.
tee hee
I can ride my bike without Texas and Louisiana just fine, thank you.
Washington also has refineries,as does California and several other states
I for one would like to see Texas secede from the Union. They have the choice and should act to protect their citizens from the mess about to happen!
Might get a wee bit more expensive.
Go Tigers.
Might be a wee bit more expensive.
Go Tigers.
Provided you're dumb enough to drive an SUV.
We don't drive Suv's
We Canadians will provide gas and oil. And we don't hang people.
We do not need SUVs Bob and we do not need Texas and Louisiana. We do not need crony capitalism. We need regulation and accountability.
...without Texas? Ill take my chances.
But wait! I heard from the right wing e-mail machine that there was a 10000 year supply of oil in North Dakota! And Alaska has all the oil we could ever need! Oh, wait. It was the right wing lie machine.
without Texas, Jesus would have less reason to cry about hypocritical followers!
So for the sake of argument, Texas and Louisiana secede taking their oil with them. What's next, join OPEC? Do you really want to insult the good citizens of those states as being unpatriotic and (literally) un-American? And do you think they'd refuse to sell oil to the United States out of spite?
Your point is silly.
We'll just get the gas it from Alaska or Saudi Arabia
have fun financing wars without California's output to the nation.
Not everyone drives a guzzler like in Texas and Louisiana, good riddance.
Forget how that turned out last time, now did we?
What happened to North Dakota and Alaska?
Forgot what hapened last time that was tried?
Did you forget Alaska and North Dakota? Divide and conquer is gonna be so much easier this time.
where I live (and its not the US), I don't need an SUV or gas. I enjoy the fantastic low cost and efficient public transportation. to hell with texas and louisiana.
They already have their success. They've got the left side of the media world tripping all over themselves to give media attention to a small and shrinking group of anarchists. Now lets start covering stories that actually have an impact on 99.999% of your viewers!
Anarchists usually tend to be on the right side of the political spectrum, not the left. An anarchist wants no government, people on the left want more government.
What like the McRib coming back to McD's?
Yum!!! McRib!!!
You have to be sitting pretty far to the left to think anarchists are right of center.
Mr. Z, just how do you come to that conclusion? Isn't it the right who's already bleating about "small government"? It seems to me that anarchists, who like no government at all, would fit right in.
Your commentators are correct to point out to you that anarchists have more in common with the right than the left. The left just LOVES big-government folks like FDR and Johnson.
BTW, there is no such thing as the leftist media. Just the corporate-owned media. And corporations love the government because they control it.
THese people are a waste of space a total waste of space little rich tards that want to cause trouble, nothing is going to change because of these Obama troopers. Obama wants this THEY are behind this chaos! The current Admin wants this violence they have done NOTHING to stop NOTHING.
Nice comments, not! A great nation is when each can express their views, That is why both occupy wall street and tea parties are great for this nation. The imprtant part is finding common ground! That is where the tea partiers need to grow some.... Finding Common Ground has been what has made this county great. You just want a county of people who think and act like you, which would not last long since you would sooner or later kill each other, hate always ends up killing itself.
How can you find common ground with movement that can't find it between themselves?What do OWL's want?Do they know?Ask them and you will get 100's different answers.
Do you realize the ignorance is layered within your comment dont you ?
Let me ask you why you single out the Tea Party, saying they need to find common ground?? Why do you think the Tea Party should be the only group to surrender their principles in the name of common ground without saying the same for OWS??
Common ground? Where was the common ground when liberals were developing obamacare behind doors that were locked to Republicans? That is what the 2010 elections were all about. We are sick of Washington wasting our money!
Really??? I have a feeling that these ideologues don't care abut anything but themselves!
That is the problem. Everyone looks out for who is most important, themselves. Everyone is their own lobbyist. They want what benefits them, not others. ECON 101: Freeloaders ruin capitalism. You would have better luck getting Israel to leave Jerusalem. When everyone contributes, everyone succeeds.
All protests end the same way, violently. Patience grows thin. Since their is no leader with OWS, it comes down to assault and tear gas, water guns and rubber bullets. i was in a riot in NYC once, and saw Police brutality first hand. Cops don't become cops for the pay, or to help others. That is what they say to get in the police academy. Police become cops for the power. Same for all law enforcement. how many times have you seen cops speeding, breaking every law known to man, beating some helpless kid with a wallet in his hand? Face reality...
There is no common ground between loosing your freedoms which are directly tied to keeping the wealth you produce and taking your freedom. Black slaves had food, housing and jobs provided for them. They just couldn't keep any of the wealth they produced. Keep your big government plans the hell away from me. Its been tried and failed far to many times by lots of arrogant intellectuals just like you liberals. Get an original idea would ya
The 1% does not want common Ground and BTW their tool, the Tea Party is funded by Koch Industries.
The answer to creating jobs is not taking away money from the people who know how to make jobs. Admittedly startups can be difficult, but why take money from people who have proven how to make jobs and give it to people who have not proven this ability? What if, instead of Occupy Wall Street participators sitting around complaining about how other people aren't making jobs for them, they would try to start an organization that actually accomplishes making jobs through hard work. The reason the top 1% are the top 1% is that they worked hard and created something new, they innovated. We should not focus our energy on freeloading, we should focus it on innovation.
Common Ground ???
VP Joe Biden:
"This is war... The barbarians are at the gate."
Congresswoman Maxine Waters:
"The Tea Party can go straight to HELL."
Oh... I "feel" so warm and loved...
Please tax me more...
Well, both Democrats and Republicans supported NAFTA, so there is some common ground.
Did you not read the article? Tea Party has had political success. OWS has no clear, unified message, it's OWS lacking support of the people, some aren't even sure what they are protesting, no organization, won't change anything.
how do you find common ground with people that have no message, no solutions. there can be no common ground in that situation. since the teapartiers have both a message and a platform, and the ows do not, it seems that the ows needs to grow in that area, not the teapartiers.
What's the most hilarious about this is: the people in charge of the corporations are the ones, 40 years ago, who were protesting the corporations. And the ones protesting now? Will be the ones "in charge" 30-40 years from now.
The Who said it best: "Meet the new boss...same as the old boss."
One of the greatest challenges Occuy Wall Street faces is avoiding being co-opted by the likes of Jeffrey Sachs and Jonah Goldberg with their ridiculous notions that Obama's defeat would improve things. Frankly, electoral politics increasingly doesn't matter any more because it is overrun by money and both major parties are guilty.
Several things I'd like to see: Overturn Supreme Court decision making corporations people, immediately end immoral and costly wars, including the War on Drugs, and end economic injustice by restoring Glass-Steagall and implementing a single payer health care system.
Thanks – count me in...
"This National Socialist revolution has
but one goal, namely to restore order within its own nation, to give our
hungry masses work and bread, to champion the concepts of honor,
loyalty and decency as the basis of a moral code which cannot harm other
nations but only contribute to their general welfare. If the National
Socialist movement did not represent a body of ideas and ideals, it
could
never have succeeded in saving our People from ultimate
disaster." Sound familiar? Thought so. Funny thing though. That is a
quote from Adolf Hitler. Figure it out.
Thank you!
The national socialists were not socialist at all. It was just a name. They were actually fascists, you know, where business owns the government?
Yeah, aside from that whole killing Jews thing, he made a pretty good bit of sense. It kind of feels like the Republi-tards took Hitler's manual and tossed out all of the valuable stuff and just kept the senseless killing.
Know a lot about Hitler do you? What do you think about the issues? Know what they are?
sounds like Obama's American. The man talks and it looks like he is SO Angry his is almost cussing you out when he speaks. He has NO love in eyes only contempt. All these policies all these crazy people thinking with bigger government we will be safer?!
silly...
I wish the so-called 99% would protest the people they put in office, starting locally and working their way up. Like the bank CEOs are really going to listen to them? They're too busying counting their billions.