Editor's note: This post is part of the Overheard on CNN.com series, a regular feature that examines interesting comments and thought-provoking conversations posted by the community.
Trayvon Martin, an unarmed teenager, was shot and killed by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman last month. Readers are debating Zimmerman's self-defense claim as well as the pros and cons of "stand your ground" laws. They've also wondered if race was a factor.
Trayvon Martin's parents to meet with justice officials
CNN.com reader Patrick Ingram of Arlington, Virginia, said in a video comment that he believes "stand your ground" laws may make it too easy for people to kill others.
"I could be walking home from a bar somewhere late at night, and someone could look at me and shoot me and not be prosecuted to the full extent of the law because of this rule," he said.
He also emphasized that he thinks acts made in self-defense should be protected, especially if someone is in danger.
We discussed some of the conversations about race that are taking place. (Check out comments from the In America blog.) Was race a factor in this case? Ingram paused a bit.
"I think there's something more to it," he said. "I think there's something more than race."
Ingram got a critical response from one reader.
VinKing: "I feel this position is mostly ignorant of how the law actually works. This current travesty of justice has nothing to do with the law and everything to do with the full-blown incompetence and bias of the law enforcement agency responsible for the area in question."
iReporter Egberto Willies said race is likely a factor.
"When we stop wearing (rose-colored) glasses and start by first being honest about our own racist tendencies, this is but a charade," he said.
Other readers from CNN.com wrote along the same lines as Ingram, in that they don't think self-defense claims apply in every case. They also wanted to differentiate the debate from concerns over race.
uva187: "I don't care about race in this situation. No man should be able to pursue another, instigate a confrontation, shoot another man and then claim self-defense. Period."
onesittingbill: "Yep. Just like the man who shot a father in front of his 8-year-old daughter is now saying self-defense. The big difference is this happened in broad daylight, in front of many witnesses."
So, how do you define self-defense? That was one question among many readers tackled in response to an opinion piece.
Opinion: Killing shows flaws of NRA-backed law
One thing to ask is, who started it?
Fool_Killer: "The law is not flawed. It does not apply to someone who starts a confrontation, and therefore is irrelevant in this case. You can’t start a fight and then claim self-defense. Those who say it does apply and is therefore flawed should be ashamed of using a teenager’s murder to further their own agenda."
Solitairedog: "If this law is not being applied to this murder, why is Zimmerman not in jail?"
boozer1982: "As it was said in the article: 'Dead men don't talk!' How could anyone prove that the shooter started the fight?"
Rich7553: "@boozer1982 - It is irrelevant. Even if the law did not exist, the same evidentiary and due process procedures would be utilized in order to prove or disprove a self-defense claim."
Who has what burden?
Yanette Rivera: "Self-defense law already permits the use of deadly force in certain reasonable and imminent situations. 'Stand your ground' laws, therefore, do not merely allow the use of deadly force —- they remove the burden of proving that such force was either reasonable or necessary."
peace2us: "Very true. The other effect it has down here has also impacted your basic fist-fight. Prior to the law, if you could retreat safely in a confrontation, then you were required to do so. Now, no one has to retreat and the confrontations escalate, often leading to much greater violence. Both sides claim self-defense based on their individual perceptions. It is very difficult to prosecute without an independent witness who can clearly point out who the aggressor was. 'Cooler heads prevail' has gone out the freaking window here in Florida. And yes, I own three firearms, support gun ownership, and have a CCW."
One person noted they think there's a good reason why "stand your ground" laws exist.
darkrat: "There is a reason behind this. Before, you get attacked, you defend yourself, and then you spend tens of thousands of dollars fighting to stay out of jail. The burden of proof was put on the real victim."
Other readers wondered if Martin may have provoked Zimmerman in some way.
thinker756: "No one seems to look at the possibility that Zimmerman approached this kid with the gun drawn, and that the kid jumped him because he quite rightly felt that his life was in danger. If someone came up to me with a gun, wouldn't I have the right to try to defend myself?"
dfr333: "Zimmerman was attacked, and physical evidence and one witness has corroborated this. You might not like Zimmerman's self-defense, but nevertheless, that is what this case boils down to, and law enforcement and the legal system cannot make up twisted facts, only the media, and people such as yourself can make up facts. When will this mob mentality end?"
In the end, what does it mean? Was race involved?
Barry Solano: "The Florida law does indeed seem to be confusing, and the most confusing part of it is whether the events that precede the actor's determination that his life is in danger have any standing. For example, can I chase someone down, slap them around a little bit, and then shoot them when they attempt to defend themselves - and call it self-defense?"
BinaryTruth: "Just so long as you kill them so they can't contradict your version of the story. Oh, and don't shoot a white person as the application of laws by the police differ from skin color to skin color."
VinKing said it's about how you enforce the law.
"If I shoot a teenager holding a bag of Skittles, I expect the law to crack down on me like the wrath of God. Just because I enjoy the ability to be armed and defend myself doesn't mean I should go looking for an excuse to get into a gunfight. These situations are highly dangerous for all involved. The lack of prosecution in this case shows a form of bias that doesn't stem from the defense laws in Florida, which have provisions that state what is and is not a good shoot. The fault here is in the police, who are perfectly capable of drawing up manslaughter charges pending the outcome of an investigation into possible murder."
There are many sides to this story, and we'd love to hear what you think. Share your opinion in the comments area below and in the latest stories on CNN.com. Or tell us what you think about this issue via CNN iReport. You can post a video comment like Ingram's if you scroll down to the blue button at the bottom of this page.
Compiled by the CNN.com moderation staff. Some comments edited for length or clarity.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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All this is terrible, but how come we never heard about the story in Kansas City. Where two black youths doused gasoline on a 13 yr old white kid and told him you deserve it. Where's the out rage on CNN? I had to read this from a commit on YAHOO about this murder.
You just said it billy. Because that kid was white, so who cares, right? That's the state of the union my friend. Reminds me of a story some years ago. Two black cops pulled a car over with two white guys driving in a bad neighborhood. Arrested the driver for some reason(never stated) but left the other guy. well later on these cops come into the holding cell laughing. Some black people had doused the other guy with gas and lit him up. These cops sat and joked about it in front of the guy they arrested. Any charges for the monkey cops? Nope
While I do indeed believe the shooting and death are a tragedy – period – the aftermath is little more than "yet another race baiting campaign event", hosted by "the usual suspects": Al Sharpton, Jess Jackson and now President Obama who earned his stripes with the knee-jerk reaction to the "black prof vs stupid police" episode. And yes, the MSM is overtly guilty of selective outrage by condemning the suspect in this matter while ignoring the FAR MORE heinous emolation of an white kid by two black thugs in St Louis.
Vigillantism at its worst. Zimmerman is a vigillante not a cop...he was told to wait for a REAL cop he choose not too..he is gulty of premeditated murder. He could easily have seen where this would end,and probably it ended just the way the fantasy played out in his head. He was looking for trouble, the kid was lookin too enjoy his candy...
. He did not need to get out of his car...what crime was he trying to prevent?...the crime of being black and wearing a hoody?
The year 1967. The place Buena vista high school. The scene: 10 blacks hitting and kicking a white boy on the floor as dozens of other kids walk by and the teachers tell everyone ,"to mind thier own business."......The white kid: "ME". The reason I mention this is; it never made the news.....it wasn't even mentioned. Untill, after several more beating, a black and blue kid sat in the principals office. Explaining why he was quitting school. "I'm just so tired of being beat up, I said".--where have we come from sence then? -not far...."may God have mercy on us all"...........bill
You are alive man. so shut up and stop complaining. you could be dead
The man in the park was confronted by the father when he was looking for a skate boarder. The man stood his ground and felt threatened and shot the father who should have been minding his business and his daughter. Trayvon was not the instigator. He was confronted and stood his ground when he felt threatened. Self defense when you are the perp?
Self defense is where you stop the aggression against you. Reports of sitting on top of Zimmerman and slamming his head repeatedly on the pavement go way past any rational idea of self-defense.
guy walks across the street carrying a gun to yell at some teenagers...HE is the one that should have minded his own business!!!
Im getting real sick of the what this country has turned into the last 10 years, it makes you wonder if its going to last another 10 years. The country is becoming a war with in itsself, self destructing in every way.
The Black panthers should be thrown in jail, the low life babboons think their really bad. Putting out wanted posters like that shows how ignorant they are. Their trying to start a race war..I hope they get what they wish for.
I grew up in a nice neighborhood in a bad city. One of the worst places to live in the US for over 10 consecutive years. We were robbed fairly regularly. It got so bad that we would leave the cars unlocked and the garage open so they would stay out of our house. This could have easily happened in my neighborhood. Nobody was ever arrested for the burglaries. I keep hearing that cops will swarm a "white" neighborhood whenever there is trouble. I have never witnessed this. Cops will show up the next day and take a report, but nothing is ever solved. So we all know that calling the police rarely fixes anything. Whites know it, blacks know it, and everyone else knows it too. So, Mr. Zimmerman knew this as well. He was probably tired of it. So he grabbed his gun, went outside and decided to confront Trayvon. Trayvon punches him in the nose, bashes Mr. Zimmerman's head into the concrete and gets shot. There is no other way this thing could have went down like it did if Trayvon didn't punch Mr. Zimmerman first. There's no way Mr. Zimmerman broke his own nose and bashed the back of his own head into the concrete. Just look at the facts people!
The question is that reasonable for self defence in this case? To shoot the kid, and in the back.? The only thing that can determine if that was reasonable is a Jury.
This so call guy that wanted to be a cop so bad he took a childs life i only hate he was not behind me because it would have been a shoot out and right now the world would know where he is now you people do the math.
We live in an angry and paranoid society. People not only fear crime, they expect it to happen. We are a reactionary society and we have been conditioned to be that way. When the police and the justice system let us down, we become disgruntled and vow to fend for ourselves. It is really not surprising that Zimmerman reacted the way he did. It is the result of a society that has learned to fear people without provocation. We believe that our righteous anger will only be quelled by taking matters in our own hands. We are headed toward a society similar to the Wild West. People don't usually make rational choices; they react with their gut feelings and animal instincts.
I truly don't believe this Travon ordeal !! Ask Mr. Zimmerman to take a "Lie Detector Test" – and if his story comes out as I expect that it will – (anyone pounding another human being's head on the ground, and saying he's gonna kill you tonight – is in trouble with any law abiding concealed carry permit holder)!! I use to like Piers Morgan's reviews, but he's already hung George Zimmerman (anything to get high reviews, and excite racial tension), and I won't watch him any longer on CNN after this B.S. !! I feel sorry for Trayvon's parents !! But from what I've heard until now, it sounds like Trayvon let his fists do his talking (swinging on a School Bus Driver ? !! – come on). From my military days, the black motto was "get in the first punch" – but it never cought me off-guard !! Zimmerman just wanted to find out what that unfimiliar kid was doing in the neighborhood, and had no intentions of starting a fist fight – but Travon had other ideas !!
It's a Very Unfortunate situation, but when you decide to let your fists do your talking – sometimes you bite off way more than you expected, and wished you had resorted to a more civil format !!! May Trayvon rest in peace – - -
Thanks, thats good to know.
Thank god for America's generous welfare system people can spend weeks and months protesting any thing they want while collecting money from the taxpayers who have to work at least five days a week every week to support these bums.
I cannot believe all the idiotic remarks about zimmerman. – I cannot wait to hear his side of this story. I can not also believe Holly's remark about white boy beaten by 10 blacks he is alive – is that all you can say? I am so sorry Bill for you having to suffer at the hands of these kids and no one came to your aid. This goes on all the time but you will not see the media reporting when it is the other way around. We should INSIST and maybe even protest crimes against us that never get reported.
Oh yes, the black panthers who called for a bounty on zimmerman need to go to jail.