Editor's note: This post is part of the Overheard on CNN.com series, a regular feature that examines interesting comments and thought-provoking conversations posted by the community.
Trayvon Martin, an unarmed teenager, was shot and killed by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman last month. Readers are debating Zimmerman's self-defense claim as well as the pros and cons of "stand your ground" laws. They've also wondered if race was a factor.
Trayvon Martin's parents to meet with justice officials
CNN.com reader Patrick Ingram of Arlington, Virginia, said in a video comment that he believes "stand your ground" laws may make it too easy for people to kill others.
"I could be walking home from a bar somewhere late at night, and someone could look at me and shoot me and not be prosecuted to the full extent of the law because of this rule," he said.
He also emphasized that he thinks acts made in self-defense should be protected, especially if someone is in danger.
We discussed some of the conversations about race that are taking place. (Check out comments from the In America blog.) Was race a factor in this case? Ingram paused a bit.
"I think there's something more to it," he said. "I think there's something more than race."
Ingram got a critical response from one reader.
VinKing: "I feel this position is mostly ignorant of how the law actually works. This current travesty of justice has nothing to do with the law and everything to do with the full-blown incompetence and bias of the law enforcement agency responsible for the area in question."
iReporter Egberto Willies said race is likely a factor.
"When we stop wearing (rose-colored) glasses and start by first being honest about our own racist tendencies, this is but a charade," he said.
Other readers from CNN.com wrote along the same lines as Ingram, in that they don't think self-defense claims apply in every case. They also wanted to differentiate the debate from concerns over race.
uva187: "I don't care about race in this situation. No man should be able to pursue another, instigate a confrontation, shoot another man and then claim self-defense. Period."
onesittingbill: "Yep. Just like the man who shot a father in front of his 8-year-old daughter is now saying self-defense. The big difference is this happened in broad daylight, in front of many witnesses."
So, how do you define self-defense? That was one question among many readers tackled in response to an opinion piece.
Opinion: Killing shows flaws of NRA-backed law
One thing to ask is, who started it?
Fool_Killer: "The law is not flawed. It does not apply to someone who starts a confrontation, and therefore is irrelevant in this case. You can’t start a fight and then claim self-defense. Those who say it does apply and is therefore flawed should be ashamed of using a teenager’s murder to further their own agenda."
Solitairedog: "If this law is not being applied to this murder, why is Zimmerman not in jail?"
boozer1982: "As it was said in the article: 'Dead men don't talk!' How could anyone prove that the shooter started the fight?"
Rich7553: "@boozer1982 - It is irrelevant. Even if the law did not exist, the same evidentiary and due process procedures would be utilized in order to prove or disprove a self-defense claim."
Who has what burden?
Yanette Rivera: "Self-defense law already permits the use of deadly force in certain reasonable and imminent situations. 'Stand your ground' laws, therefore, do not merely allow the use of deadly force —- they remove the burden of proving that such force was either reasonable or necessary."
peace2us: "Very true. The other effect it has down here has also impacted your basic fist-fight. Prior to the law, if you could retreat safely in a confrontation, then you were required to do so. Now, no one has to retreat and the confrontations escalate, often leading to much greater violence. Both sides claim self-defense based on their individual perceptions. It is very difficult to prosecute without an independent witness who can clearly point out who the aggressor was. 'Cooler heads prevail' has gone out the freaking window here in Florida. And yes, I own three firearms, support gun ownership, and have a CCW."
One person noted they think there's a good reason why "stand your ground" laws exist.
darkrat: "There is a reason behind this. Before, you get attacked, you defend yourself, and then you spend tens of thousands of dollars fighting to stay out of jail. The burden of proof was put on the real victim."
Other readers wondered if Martin may have provoked Zimmerman in some way.
thinker756: "No one seems to look at the possibility that Zimmerman approached this kid with the gun drawn, and that the kid jumped him because he quite rightly felt that his life was in danger. If someone came up to me with a gun, wouldn't I have the right to try to defend myself?"
dfr333: "Zimmerman was attacked, and physical evidence and one witness has corroborated this. You might not like Zimmerman's self-defense, but nevertheless, that is what this case boils down to, and law enforcement and the legal system cannot make up twisted facts, only the media, and people such as yourself can make up facts. When will this mob mentality end?"
In the end, what does it mean? Was race involved?
Barry Solano: "The Florida law does indeed seem to be confusing, and the most confusing part of it is whether the events that precede the actor's determination that his life is in danger have any standing. For example, can I chase someone down, slap them around a little bit, and then shoot them when they attempt to defend themselves - and call it self-defense?"
BinaryTruth: "Just so long as you kill them so they can't contradict your version of the story. Oh, and don't shoot a white person as the application of laws by the police differ from skin color to skin color."
VinKing said it's about how you enforce the law.
"If I shoot a teenager holding a bag of Skittles, I expect the law to crack down on me like the wrath of God. Just because I enjoy the ability to be armed and defend myself doesn't mean I should go looking for an excuse to get into a gunfight. These situations are highly dangerous for all involved. The lack of prosecution in this case shows a form of bias that doesn't stem from the defense laws in Florida, which have provisions that state what is and is not a good shoot. The fault here is in the police, who are perfectly capable of drawing up manslaughter charges pending the outcome of an investigation into possible murder."
There are many sides to this story, and we'd love to hear what you think. Share your opinion in the comments area below and in the latest stories on CNN.com. Or tell us what you think about this issue via CNN iReport. You can post a video comment like Ingram's if you scroll down to the blue button at the bottom of this page.
Compiled by the CNN.com moderation staff. Some comments edited for length or clarity.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Stand Your Own Ground insites violence in a
country that, already, has provision of self
defense. Just the sound of it has undertones
of aggression as opposed to protection.
People don't need another reason to be
violent, they need deterrence.
Bless the Children,
Hope
The stand your ground law is a poorly structured law. Remember scenes from the old western (cowboy) movies. One could cause a confrontation with a second party and when the first party feels threaten then the first party is allowed to kill the second party. The first party can then walk away without any consequences. Hired killers would become the norm. "I was just protecting myself." Even people who support this stupid law would not be safe. Just kill a person in private and make up a story.
Maybe we should all carry guns and any time we feels threaten, just have a shoot out.
Each day I take a daily walk and I wear a hoodie and when it cold or raining my hands are in my pocket. Sometimes, I carry a water bottle. By the way, I am a black person who lives in a 99% white neighborhood. I have two children, one is dark and the other is very light skinned, because their mother happens to be a white lady.
Using the rational of George Zimmerman who killed the 17-teen year old Martin child, both me and my darker skinned child could be killed, because someone thinks we look threating.
The Stand Your Ground Law is a law designed to sell guns. George Zimmerman should be held accountable for his crime, and we don't need policeman like Chief Bill Lee Jr.
Its not a poorly structured law, Its a law set up where a jury will have to decide not the police or prosecutor. Other states that have the same law would of all ready taken this to the Grand Jury at least. So what is Floridas problem? Their idiots.
The way this teen died was wrong.zimmerman said it was self-defense but it clearly wasn't self-defense because he went after the teen when he was told not to..I guess by Zimmermans way of thinking I can shoot a Guy walking down the sidewalk infront of my house and say he looked at my house therefore he was planning to break in..and why should you care? It could of been your kid or someone You know ..
It is sad what happened to this person. However, when I hear the racial card being played my ears perk up. So a guest says Blacks are worried when they have a Police car behind them, aren't we all? She went on to say Blacks are afraid to go into some neighborhoods, aren't we all? We constantly hear how prisons are disproportionately filled with minorities, yet if this was a crime it was a hispanic shooting a black. So, hispanics can claim racial targeting in this case? Anybody can claim anything. Let's get real, if we commit a crime we should go to jail. This kid was either murdered or shot in self defense. Hoodie or color of the skin of ether party has nothing to do with whether it was right, wrong or a crime. Don't commit crimes, stay out of 'bad' neighborhoods, don't drive illegally, stay out of trouble. Get real.
Just because you've never been targeted, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others. If you want to know the real truth about anything, investigate with your eyes and mind open. You may be surprised at what you find....
This law in FL does not seem very smart to me.
Anyone can walk around with a gun, and approach a group of people who they know are aggressive or who snap easily... ie:young hateful gang members, ie:basketballers, ie: skateboarders.. whatever your flavor.. see who stands out as overtly agressive and dominate. Then challenge them, somehow.. make it so they are attacking you.. then pull out your gun and defend yourself.
What a stupid law.. so easy for any murderer or hatefull person to manipulate this law so they can kill legally.
They want everyone to kill each other in Florida.
There is a flaw that is somehow being overlooed about this law. For instance; if someone looses their temper or holds a grudge aganst another person and there are no witnesses around all they need to do is claim self defense. How many times has this happened in Florida alone since 2005?
Teenagers don't get kill everyday at the hands of people pretending to be cops. This case is special because he got kill for being black and that is unacceptable.
Descerne self defense........................... A gun for a gun, a knife for a knife, a bat for a bat, etc. If somebody is an immediate threat to your physical well being then self defense is justified. Example. If some one breaks into your house and you see the possible assailiant, you are justified to react first. Its an immediate threat to you and any loved ones. Its easy noise retrirve weapon, find a stationary place stand your ground, get the persons attention and stop him/ her. Its going to be them and not me thats for d#m sure
Are you burnt out on flagging yet? ..................................self defense, is when yoy need to defend yourself against an aggressor/s to protect your self! So whats wrong with that? Im not saying that this teen was shot in self defense, which he was an innocent person! So here we go again........................... If possible you match weapon for weapon,period! Or you become a statistic, if you want to lay down and take an a#s kicking than that shows the agressor that its ok to do what hes doing. I would not take any kind of attack either hand to hand or a mechanical means, such as a fire arm or a blunt object , or any other weapon to speak of so if someone wants to pull a gun on me in my house as an b&e than heres how i see it,,,,,,,,,, gun for gun , knife for knife, bat for bat. And i can almost guarantee you that you will live! What would you do? Take an assault or fight back ? All the faith in the world would not stop an attacker from taking your life and the life of your family! Finally ,,,,,,,,, this guy that shot this teen, should be prosecuted! By all means, he was not justified in doing what he did.did he actually see a weapon ? NO! This guy was just looking for a reason to use such force, and he did, the out come? Another young person being murdered. If we want this practice to be stoped than we need to start with local law inforcement, they have forgotten that there jobs are to protect and to serve, they are supposed to lay down there lives for us, so we all need to also stop blaming the NRA for such actions, they are not responsible for the deadly use uf firearms, the guns do not have a mind of there own its some of the people that posses them that kill
Americans are so ignorant these days.
Isn't it so sad that anyone has to die! Its also sad that there is such a big return of racist believers! I suspect this blog would not be here had the boy been white! Right Obama? Theres your return of racist to america!
so sad that you are exactly correct. Not long ago we had an incident in Valrico Florida where a black man shot an unarmed young father over an arguement. The white man was a vet there at the play ground with his daughter. She witnessed the murder and the black man was never arrested. But no major problems here. No one was asked to resign and no one came from elsewhere to stir up trouble. A young white Veteran father is dead and no one seemed to care in the black community. It is all about color. Sadly
You got that right Fred. If the kid was white, you wouldn't hear a peep. Even when no white people are involved we get brought into the mix. WHITE/HISPANIC??? What is that? The shooter is hispanic.
I was waiting for some 1 to blame Obama & was not disappointed! I think the nation would feel the same outrage if the boy had been white! The difference is how the police percieved the situation! If the boy had been white perhaps there would have been a more thorough investigation & Mr. Zimmerman would at the very least have had to hire an attorney! Yes, there are still "race perceptions"that cause people to think stereotypically, (not caused by Obama, btw)! This boy should not have died, but the fact that he may not get justice is almost as bad as the shooting itself! This law should be recinded!!
No it's not Obamas fault. But he's not helping either. "If I had a son..." How does that statement help? 3 years ago...Long Island...white teenager shot and killed by black man...claimed feared for his life. No outrage from black people. OJ Simpson...guilty as hell...can't convict because...who wants another riot in LA when they don't get what they want. And yes I'm talking about Rodney King. The world saw 20 secs. of a 2 min. video and convicted those cops previous to trial. All the facts come out in trial(kings extensive criminal record, the fact that he was high on pcp that night, and the fact that the cops tazered him twice, trying to restrain him,and he still got up) so not guilty verdict. Then....well we know what happened. The animals went nuts. The black man who left Reginald Denny(white truck driver hit in head repeatedly with a brick) a cripple was caught, tryed, and found not guilty?????????? That video didn't lie. You saw the whole thing. Black outrage? Only if it involves blacks. Seems ok for them, why not for us?
Can you see him? Holding a single bag of skittles and a can of iced tea, Can you see him? Wearing his hoodie. Can you see his blood soaked body, left to die? Can you really see him? I want you to picture that young man. Now imagine he's white. -adapted from the movie " A Time to Kill".-EPW
Can you see him threaten to shoot the man? I can see him pretend he had a weapon in the bag instead of leaving the area. There were two mistakes here.
Then the shooter wouldn't be described as white/hispanic. Just hispanic. And he'd probably walk.
iam a spanish single mom' i never feel 100×100 safe after the new law in florida,
for me personal is a license to kill is time to all of us come toguether and demanded respect for black and spainsh now after this horrible crime i need to worried about how my kids dress or wat neighbors they walk , never be able to sleep till my kids get home,we are not safe florida need to change that law and stop wit giving people sick on the head license to kill".
The interests of law and order are inimical to the interests of truth and justice because they who write such laws write them to their
advantage and benefit while also intending that such laws serve to the detriment and deterrence of their adversaries and enemies.