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Where did waters part for Moses? Not where you think
An illustration based on new research shows how wind could have moved and split waters from two ancient basins.
The parting of the waters described in the book of Exodus that enabled Moses and the Israelites to escape the pharaoh's army is possible, computer simulations run by researchers at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and the University of Colorado at Boulder show.
To test the theory that the biblical account may have depicted actual events, the researchers studied maps of the region, archaeological records and satellite measurements to find a topographical feature where such an event might have been possible. They settled on an area south of the Mediterranean Sea where some oceanographers say a branch of the Nile River drained into what was called the Lake of Tanis, a coastal lagoon 3,000 years ago.
The computer model shows a 63 mph east wind blowing across the area and its 6-feet-deep waters for 12 hours. In the scenario, the wind pushed back the waters into both the lake and the channel of the river, exposing a mud flat 2 to 2.5 miles long and 3 miles wide for four hours. As the winds died down, the waters quickly flowed back in and in theory would have drowned anyone on the mud flat.
“The simulations match fairly closely with the account in Exodus,” said Carl Drews of NCAR, the lead author of the study published in the online journal PLoS ONE. (Read the full study)
“The parting of the waters can be understood through fluid dynamics. The wind moves the water in a way that’s in accordance with physical laws, creating a safe passage with water on two sides and then abruptly allowing the water to rush back in.”
YouTube: Parting the waters, Part 1: The physics of a land bridge
Parting the waters, Part 2: Carl Drews on wind setdown research
The biblical account of Exodus has Moses and his followers trapped by the pharaoh forces against a body of water, which has been translated to both the Red Sea and the Sea of Reeds. In the account, a strong wind comes up after night falls and parts the waters behind the Israelites. Moses leads them into the breach but when the pharaoh army pursues them at daybreak, the gap disappears and the army is lost.
Previous research has focused on areas of the Red Sea near the modern-day Suez Canal where the biblical miracle may have been possible. The NCAR/CU team said their research shows those scenarios unlikely. They ran a series of 14 computer simulations to pinpoint the area where the parting of the waters was most likely.
“People have always been fascinated by this Exodus story, wondering if it comes from historical facts,” Drews says. “What this study shows is that the description of the waters parting indeed has a basis in physical laws."
Drews conducted the Exodus research as part of a larger project on how winds can affect water depths.
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This research is interesting, but it doesn't address that God does as He chooses, and our research is only as accurate as our limited knowledge allows. So, the scientists have now 'proven' that a historic text (the Bible) could be true, but without faith, no amount of proof will serve its intended purpose. This article takes away from God's glory by assuming the weather created the parting of the sea. How about the Creator who created the weather?
How about the creator who created the creator? And then that creator's creator? That must be some family reunion, since all of them are eternal and all.
Amazing! To think you eat with the same mouth with which you speak.
Amazing! To think people as dumb as you haven't been weeded out through natural selection yet. Ha
As an atheist, I believe the "god" part of all holy books are fictional, merely reflecting the lack of understanding by ancients of rational scientific explanation which caused the phenomenon they thought were "miraculous" – not to mention that history was often spread through word of mouth for centuries before being finally written down, and facts tend to become embellished and exaggerated eventually bear little resemblance to the actual occurrence.
However, from a purely secular view, the holy books (read as works of literature) are not necessarily inferior to comparative non-holy texts in history telling, because even the most innocent recordkeepers in the Ancient world often invoked gods and embellished history. We have to read between the lines.
As for the story of the Jews crossing the Red Sea, or the Noahide floods, it is entirely reasonable (even likely) that they were based on real events. Even if we haven't discovered Egyptian records mentioning this, it does not mean such record ever existed. Much of our understanding of the Ancient World was lost when Great Library of Alexandria was burnt down during the Islamic Conquest.
Nobody gives a flying fig what an atheist believes on a religion forum. get lost.
Typical prideful ignorance.
missadr
"Nobody gives a flying fig what an atheist believes on a religion forum. get lost."
Interesting that you think this is a religion forum...
I appreciate your sensible post even if you and I sit on opposite sides of the fence. I would challenge your statement regarding innocent recordkeepers embellishing history. This is quite a bold claim that has very little basis or foundation and presumes you've been living for centuries to know such a thing. In of itself, it does call into question how we should filter out what we can by what we hear, read, perceive versus what we think makes logical sense.
I understand that we've come a long way as a society over the centuries and have made wonderful progression slowly over time, but why should we believe that the majority of human beings on Earth were duped to believing in a higher power exists? Because we, today, can't over an explanation via our senses or perception? Or because the existence of science, by default, negates anything metaphysical?
Personally, I refuse to fall into the "science" all category because science does have it's limitation: us. Science in of itself will not reveal a cure for cancer without the faith that we have that such a cure can be realized and worked upon.
Although I'm not completeIy an atheist agree that there may be some fallacies in the Bible. Futhermore, people who feel that their religion is the "only" truth are completely wrong. Has it ever occured that my Jesus may be your Budda, Allah or whomever one would like to call him?
As far as this study goes, there can't be any way possible to legitimize the parting of the sea, likewise there isn't anyway to prove hat it didn't happen. Think about it, in order to prove it happened you would need some type of soil sample or something that could prove it; just like you would need an eye witness to say it didn't happen that way. Religion needs subscribers to keep it alive much like science. Just because Newton said that the apple fell from the tree because of gravity doesn't necessarily make it true; maybe things are the way they are because that's the way it's supposed to be.
Futhermore, this study doesn't fix any of our real world problems, people are starving and dying for reasons that we can control. Why waste money on figuring out something that may/may not have happened millenia ago?
so your saying the force of gravity does not exist
whats next are you gonna say that ptolemy was righj
lmao
Hmmm, the Jewish god saved the followers of Abraham and Moses in the Exodus stories so what did these followers do to offend their god in the last 70 years as there was no parting of the Rhine or Danube and with the large number of followers marrying Gentiles these days, said religion/race might be extinct by the year 2500. Maybe the Exodus stories are myths? Hmmmm?
Actually, according to 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis, the Book of Exodus is a book of fiction as are both Abraham and Moses.
To wit (for new members only):
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482
New Torah For Modern Minds
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment.
What brilliant minds to have come up with the Exodus story! Had to be brilliant if it didn't happen.
Yep, folks just like our modern-day science-fiction and fantasy authors.
That was for @mm
"What brilliant minds to have come up with the Exodus story?"
"Reply" not working...
@SomeTruth, its easy to disregard what you are ignorant of but I am sure there is a little doubt whether you think you are right (100%) and its that little doubt that should keep you always asking more questions and one day you will find the right path. I was a few years ago where you are now, and I cannot tell you how wrong I was back then.
@Chuck
Au contraire, I was once devoutly religious - that is how I know how misguided you are.
You were once religious?? That's hilarious. You couldn't have been that much of a believer. What happened that made you stop believing? You didn't hit Powerball?
Maybe he woke up unlike you.
religions,all of them are total Garbage nonsense.
Have u ever wonder why does it seem that religion and Politics goes hands in hands.
They are Both Scams.
Patrick. When you die and walk up most likely in Hell remember what you posted on this sight. I agree poolitics is a scam.
Patrick A, religion is so much of a scam, that when the governments of then U.S.S.R., Cuba, China and North Korea realized the same as you and secularized their governments completely banning religions, those became the best nations to live in the world. In fact, why don't you move to North Korea or China were religion is virtually non-existent? I bet you wont come back!!!!
To Patrick A and others: Science is constantly proving the Bible over and over.
Believer:
"You couldn't have been that much of a believer." Typical "Fox and the Gra-pes" response.
My "Hare and the Tortoise" reply: I learned slowly but surely over the years that those so-called truths are actually only myth, legend, fantasy and superst-ition.
And yeah, Aesop has as much, if not more wisdom and morality than the Wholly Babble.
OK, not familiar with this forum...sorry for a duplicate postiing...just want to see what happens.
@mm
Not all that surprising. The Bible is filled with allegory, and the exodus narrative (the story of Moses and Pharaoh) is nearly identical to the story of Jeroboam and the king of Judah (Solomon or Rehoboam). Exodus 1, in fact, has at least 6 or 7 references to Jeroboam and Solomon enclosed within that short chapter. Given that the geographical sites identified as exodus locations are all located in the eastern Sinai, one would be led to the conclusion that the exodus story is an allegorical rendering of the Israelite independence from Judah following Solomon's death. Isn't the Bible fun?
Wow interesting story which conclusions take about as much faith to believe as the original story. Archeology also points out that all these things could have been true. It is a guess by most no one will know for certain, unless you have faith.
U don't know the Bible.
As far as Jews are concerned, they didn't except their Messiah so of course thy would downplay Biblical characters of Old Testament. That always happens when u ignore evidence from God.
TO understand the Exodus, 1 must begin from Geneses Ch 37 with Joseph having dreams then sold by his brothers and is taken to Egypt, sold as a slave, put in jail for being faithful.
Read and see the early years of the Nation of Israel.
@ Reality. Just because Modern jews called the Bible fiction based on their opinions means nothing. This is appealing to dubious authority. That's like someone 2000 years from now saying America didn't exist to appease the thought of their day.
jews are just mad because they had the chance to be right and they werent so they denouce the bible jesus and god because they are bitter
just because a person is upset does not mean the truth changes to satisfy you jews are just mad because they had the chance to be right and they werent so they denouce the bible jesus and god because they are bitter
Really? It seems your being a bit irrational and targeting Jews when you are just assuming. How dissapointing we can be to each other.....
They seem resistant to any thought that a MIRACLE could occur, and yet, there is something so simple and yet amazing which occurs and sustains life every moment of every day...THAT WATER EXPANDS WHEN FROZEN AND THUS BREAKS THE LAWS OF SCIENCE.....they don't want to explain about that, just challenge belief in singularities...amazing events. SCIENTISTS ARE SISSIES HAHAHA
So what if water expands when frozen ? Big flippin deal. It does not take a god to allow this and certainly doesnt break any laws of physics. It is just the alignment of the electrons.
Every form of life that exists does so only because they adapted to their environment. The marine life at the bottom of the ocean near hydrothermal vents probably can't believe their luck that the water is 700 degrees Fahrenheit and acidic.
Every form of life that exists does so because God created it.
This god of yours is a pile of dung! So, what created this pile of dung?
Our God is not a pile of dung. He created the ocean and knows it better than you would ever know your own balls sack!!
You cant be serious. I really shouldnt respond to you, but I have to say that I am intrigued by the fact that you were reading a news article on the internet. I also assume that you typed your original thought, with what must have been a challenging device, known as a keyboard. I hope your fourth birthday is going well, but maybe you should ask your mom before you type anything else jackson.
Jackson, for someone defending their faith that is not a way to convince people what you say is true. It just has the opposite effect.
Funniest post I've read all day. Thanks for making me laugh.
Sure it does, Sparky.
...inclduing God.
And your proof is what?
Wow, talk about an epic fail of basic scientific knowledge! Most objects contract when they cool because the molecules lose energy, don't vibrate as much, and thus do not have as many collisions with neighboring molecules. Water does the same thing, only the polar properties of its molecular structure force the molecules to align in a hexagonal pattern. In fact, if you look at a vibrational energy/size requirement vs heat content analysis, you'd see that water too contracts as it gets cooler, until the certain point where the molecules align. Then the size requirement slightly spikes, before beginning to contract again.
well, if you understood the laws of physics and how they govern molecules under varying conditions, you would understand that water freezing does not break any law of science. But then that would require an education.
CAN YOU PROVE THAT 66 WRITERS OVER 3800 YEARS WROTE CONSISTENTLY AND YET, WITHOUT ANY SENSE?
The Bible was written by 40 writers over 1500 or so years. According to the Bible. If you dont accept the Bible then you'll just debate. I wont name every writer for each book and when aprox it was written according to the Bible, but all that is in it.
A little realit. Thanks.
Dr. Paolo Matthiae, Director of the Italian Archeological Mission in Syria, "hit an archeological jackpot" in 1975. He discovered "the greatest third-millennium [B.C.] archive ever unearthed." It included "more than 15,000 cuneiform tablets and fragments" and unveiled a Semitic empire that dominated the Middle East more than four thousand years ago. Its hub was Ebla, where educated scribes filled ancient libraries with written records of history, people, places and commerce.[5]
"These early tablets display an ease of expression, an elegance that indicates complete mastery of the cuneiform system by the scribes," said Dr. Giovanni Pettinato, former epigraphist of the Italian Mission, who worked closely with Dr. Matthiae. "One can only conclude that writing had been in use at Ebla for a long time before 2500 B.C."
The Ebla tablets verified the worship of pagan gods such as Baal, Dagan and Asherah "known previously only from the Bible."[5] They mention the name "Abraham" and "Ur of Chaldees" (the Biblical Abraham's birthplace) as well as other familiar cities and places:
"The names of cities thought to have been founded much later, such as Beirut and Byblos, leap from the tablets. Damascus and Gaza are mentioned, as well as two of the Biblical cities of the plain, Sodom and Gomorrah. ... Most intriguing of all are the personal names found on the Ebla tablets. They include Ab-ra-mu (Abraham), E-sa-u
@Shia, thats is only because you are not reading the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you truly knew who Jesus was you would know in your heart the truth that the Bible is the word of God and infallible.
So if the Bible is infalible... that would mean that it's ALL accurate? Even in Genesis where God created light and THEN the sun? Or the part where God created Adam and Eve, they had two sons, and then after one killed the other, he ran away to the village? (where did these people come from?) or the 100s of contradictions included throughout the Bible? Does this mean that I can bring back a slave from Afghanistan or Irak? Or that if my brother dies, I have to marry his widow and impregnate her? What about all those non-believers that I'm allowed to slaughter? Do they line up willingly for me? or do I have to chase them down?
I'm voting for "Chase them down":!
@frank
"So the bible is infallible..."
Thank you, good Sir, you have made my day. =)
@Medardus,
Nice try at quote mining... you forgot the word IF... đź€
You are a moron working with only half of the information. Pick and choose which sentences to pull out of context to prove your point.
We were not there when it happened. God is supreme!
frank, i usually do not reply to these blogs... in fact, this the first time for me. your comment is the only one that seem to make sense. there's no way anyone would know what you know if they didn't do a little reading or studying. and yes, these are valid objections and seeming contradictions... i asked the same questions myself. i believe that will careful studies of the original texts, customs and cultures of the ancient world, your mind's eyes will gradually come to see the truth.
that means that if your'e dad's name is bob you must be my brother also – only that i call him robert. heck that's the analogy your'e using. only one caveat: christians believe he is the son of God, muslims say he is not God's son, Jews don't think he's the Messiah. if a is not b than b is not a
Respectfully, I have to wonder. If in his ignorance, early man was ingnorant enough to invent God, why was he sophisticated enough to propose that there was a Supreme Intelligence outside the material world?
I'd offer some combination of paredolia, apophenia and simulacrum. The truly curious question is why did these supreme intelligences always bear very "human" emotional qualities? Until science could investigate the underlying mechanisms, humans have responded to nature as they do a Rorschach inkblot, projecting meaning from an internal mix of need for explanation and to alleviate the anxiety associated with stochastic events.
oops. Response to Brad @ 4:54PM
Does using big words make you feel more important?
@Robert but are you sure? That little hint of doubt should always make you wonder (=
For the folks that might be missing this and saying this or that about science blah blah, the mirical may not have been the sea dividing (as we can explain by science), but the timing of it. Sure science can explain how it happened but can they explain how (or even why) it happened exactly at the moment when the Jews were about to be wiped out? or the timing of the water closing to protect them? Sometimes the mirical is not in the event, but in the timing of the event.
I'm surprised you haven't heard – the big news in archaeology lately is a body of evidence that contradicts the common opinions on the Jews' relationship with Egypt.
Very True
The comments here by the Cult of Yahweh are typical. Odin goes to all that trouble to save some people, and the cranky Desert God claims credit. Next, they'll be telling us that Ask and Embla were not the first man and woman.
Why would the All Father care about a desert people who never honored Him?
Because, Thorrsman, God loves even you. So, He can love the desert people too.
ldsmom02 I've little doubt about the feelings of the All Father for me and mine, or that the Storm Bringer protects. This desert God of Abraham, however....
Hail Thor, and remember to wear your hammer each and every day; moonsday tiwsday, wodensday especially Thorsday!,
freyasday, the saturnalia and the sunday!
bob blob, I am never without my hammers (tattooed them on) and I never forget the Gods in my daily life. Valhalla when I die!
So, GOD used the natural forces of wind that HE created to part the red sea? Whudathunkit? Just because it can be explained by science, doesn't DISPROVE it's occurrence. Hence, it is impossible to please GOD without FAITH.
Ah, so the parting of the sea could have been a natural occurrence?
Hmm... then where's the miracle?
Timing. What brought Moses and the Israelites there when the wind blew and Pharaoh and his army when it stopped?
In the timing
The miracle comes from the fact that Moses didn't have to wait with millions of israelites until a gigantic wind came up. It happened miraculously and at a most fortunate point in time.
'The miracle comes from the fact that Moses didn't have to wait with millions of israelites until a gigantic wind came up. It happened miraculously and at a most fortunate point in time.'
The miracle is that people believe this nonsense.
a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest.
simon & garfunkel
The lyrics you quote say "the man", not "a man".
Ayyyymen!!!!!
The scientists also discovered that the 63 mph wind indicates that even God is not immune to periodic bouts of Irritable Bowel Syndrome...
Mosses didn't part the red sea. If you really believe that happened then you are a tool.
If you can't even spell Moses correctly, then you are a tool . . . or just dumber than dirt.
I think he is talking about moss now. We have proof that God did smite the Vegetarians.
ADONAI ALLOWS ALL OF US TO CHOOSE WHAT WE WANT TO BELIEVE. YOUR BEING TESTED. WHEN YOU DIE AND YOU WILL , YOU WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDINGLY.
Ooooohhhhh, stop it you are scaring all of us with your millennium old fairy tales.
You're old. Turn off the caps.
That is your god of love? You have free choice but if you don't choose me I will torture you for all eternity? If there was a god we would already be in a paradise. If there was a god and he treated his creation the way things are he would be such a psyco that he would make DeSade look like a girl scout!
You sound like a mad man in a horror flick..yikes.
I hope the tax payer did not fund this BS.
What's the difference? We fund all manner of other BS.
Amazing conversation but really scary. Faith is what it is - belief without proof.(Miriam-Webster). Those who believe, believe. Those who don't, won't.
But I would conjecture that lots of those on here who dismiss God's existance somehow find credence in Obama being a Muslim, a socialist, or a Kenyan despite proof to the contrary.
A mind is a dreadful thing to waste, my conservative friends.
I'm an Atheist, and I dismiss a belief in gods or religions, especially a belief based on faith becuase faith makes a virtue out of not-thinking. However, your blanket statement regarding Obama is incorrect , from my experience most of the supposed "birthers" who suspect Obama's citizenship, or claim he is a "Muslim" or "Marxist" mainly come from those of the religous right. Rember, "The world holds two classes of men – intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." Where do you fall?
lol
i agree with you
@Bruce If there is a "religious right" then there must be a "religious left". I am a Christian and believe in God as well as in His Son Jesus. I also believe that science and religion are NOT mutually exclusive, but also that our understanding of things (in any scientific discipline) is limited by our ability to understand. As an example, we can intellectually reason that there can be (or must be) multiple dimensions in space-time in order to support our current model of the Big Bang and string theory.. We can do the math. Some can even really comprehend the idea. But not a single one of us can truly know what multiple dimensions or parallel universes are in reality. If you remember ever reading Flatland, it is the same kind of thing. As for intelligence and religion, perhaps you should read a bit of C.S. Lewis beginning with Mere Christianity. You may not agree with his arguments, but he does apply reason and intellect to them.
Oooooooooooooooooo! I LOVE you! Are you married?
Hey Dale- You're right, there is a Christion Left, which tends to embrace policies of social justice, this is in cotrast to the Christion Right which tend to support conservative social and political values.
i am familiar with the writings of Lewis, you may be referring to his "Lewis Trilemma" argument, and although he appears to apply reason to his argument, and he certainly does so in an eloquent manner, his argument is as easy to refute as Aquinas' Five Proofs of gods existence. Refute one, and they all fall, basic logical fallacies.
P.S. As a child I simply loved the Narnia series, have re-read the entire series to both of my children.
Boy are you ever mixed up! The more educated you are, either through school or by self learning, the more likely you are to understand the roots of religious belief and the fact that man created gods , not the other way around, and the less likely you are to believe anything you hear from a Republican or a tea partyer or especially the religious right. We are you ones that you think you are insulting by calling us humanists. We are who this country was founded by and for.
In the Bible, they went across on DRY land and it CLEARLY says the waters were congealed! This article proves nothing! It was a MIRACLE of God-and they can't be proven by science! If these people would put just half the effort into FAITH as they do into trying to disprove what man WILL NEVER disprove, this world would be a much better place!
There was a time when most of the Western World put most of its effort into FAITH. This was called the dark ages.
the ancient romans considered christianity a cult. when does a cult like christianity become a mainstream religion ? when theres enough followers/believers ? if so is then a religions acceptance as truth is based on numbers ? is then the most popular religion is considered truth ? does that means the less popular religions are false ? if the koran and bible are infallible what about earlier versions that are different ? are they wrong or are they just books written by men ? are not men fallible ? could not these books be written by religious men with limited scientific knowlede trying to explain life and the universe around them ? is this not more likely than the earth being 6000 yrs old. if you disagree could it be that your mind is restrained by religious dogma and religions cult like influence ? think carefully ?
Roger unfortunately using Logic to discern such facts is not a concept which people who chose their truth by faith alone understand. It really is a mental illness we should be sensitive to.
Both Christianity and Islam really are the world's most successful cults.
I always questioned all those "miraculous" events, even when I was a child. Why didn't these happen in our time? I questioned the validity of the bible....only stories that were passed down from the seekers who couldn't
explain those scientific events like lightning and thunder,, the burning bush...earthquakes......etc
I suppose if they occurred on a regular basis, they would not be very miraculous. Get it yet?
Hey IMHO..did u know that despite how ”peaceful” Ghandi was...he still used to beat his wife...