Fired Navy commander: My bosses knew about raunchy videos
Owen Honors says senior leadership gave "tacit approval" of controversial on-board videos.
January 31st, 2011
12:32 PM ET

Fired Navy commander: My bosses knew about raunchy videos

The Navy commander fired for making racy videos and broadcasting them on a ship says that the movies had the "tacit approval" of senior Navy leadership, the Navy Times reports.

Owen Honors' statement to investigators, obtained by the Navy Times, marks the first time his side of the story has been made public.

Honors made headlines for days in early January when the videos were published on the Virginian-Pilot newspaper site. The films included a simulated rectal exam, anti-gay slurs and sailors pretending to shower with each other aboard ship. In early January, Honors was removed from his post commanding the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise.

An official 15-page statement that Honors gave to Navy investigators states that two commanding officers, two strike group admirals "and myriad other senior military and civilian distinguished visitors" were aware of the videos, according to the Navy Times.

Honors made the videos in 2006 and 2007 when he was executive officer of the Enterprise, and they were discussed during meetings with the ship's commanding officer and other leadership, the Navy Times reports. During these conversations, Honors received “encouraging feedback” about the content of the movies and was never told to stop making them, according to the report.

Honors' superiors did not respond to Navy Times' requests for comment.

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Filed under: Military • U.S. Navy
soundoff (466 Responses)
  1. Vaughan Wynne-Jones

    Not having seen the video, there's little I can say to this, but it does seem to me that Captain Honors is being strung out like a sacrificial lamb on the altar of political correctness. The videos were designed to educate about the importance of not discriminating or disrespectful. I think its a shame that someone who has devoted his life to the service of his country and clearly has worked hard to reach a pinnacle in his career is being treated with the very disrespect that the video was designed (and approved by senior staff) to prevent.

    January 31, 2011 at 12:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • guest

      If you have not seen the videos, then how do you know what they were designed for?

      January 31, 2011 at 12:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • JRC123

      It's only going to get worse–the social engineering ploy of repealing DADT demonstrates that people's fragile feelings are more important than combat readiness in the current era.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sirena

      Youtube the videos... They are in no way, shape, or form designed to "educate about the importance of not discriminating or disrespectful." If anything they were discriminatory and VERY disrespectful...

      January 31, 2011 at 1:16 pm | Report abuse |
    • Howard

      So what else is new in the military? It's darn rare for a 4 star to get cashiered for his screw-ups; it's always the Lyndie Englands that take the hit alone. Leadership in the military is largely a fiction.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • Former Marine

      Oh Sirena be quiet. They weren't disrespectful of anyone, they were funny. They took required obnoxious safety briefs and made them at least mildly entertaining. Remember also that the military is a completely different culture. People aren't looking for something offensive to whine about. We do not have, nor do we want, thin-skinned crybabies whining every time someone says a bad word. If they can't handle that, how would they handle their boat sinking, or people shooting at them?

      Please, go be a civilian and cry, whine, and moan when bad things happen to you, but please, please, PLEASE, leave the military alone. It's because of people like you that these types of safety briefs are needed in the first place.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Stan

      He's still a knucklehead. A person of his position should know better. But then, his commanding officers should have as well. Doesn't say a lot for the intelligence of naval high command, other than to confirm that feces flows downhill.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sirena

      @formermarine
      I like that you think you know what is going through the minds of EVERY service member this country has to offer.
      You have obviously never heard of something called peer pressure or the need to conform. Oh and by the way its my understanding that people complained about the offensive nature of the these videos and nothing was done about it.
      Also, I find it sad that you think videos like this are OK simply because the topic was originally obnoxious.
      I am sorry that you find the need to defend someone like this. Or videos of this nature. Guess what though he has been fired. So i think you sir are the one who needs to be quiet and quit whining <3.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • Squidly Diddly

      Former Marine? I didn't know there was such a thing. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Semper Fi

      January 31, 2011 at 2:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • NavyDiver

      "Little man out to dry", Im with you on that Senior Chief. Also a Commanding Officer is always responsible for what happens on his watch. I dont think he should have been released from the Navy for his own beliefs. The military is not a democracy which civilians dont realize, its a chain of command that every soldier, sailor, marine, and airmen stick too. Hes an old salt and adheres to the old Navy rules. This should not be how we take care of our fighting men and women. Political officers should stay in Washington and let the real officers do the fighting. Hooyah America.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:16 pm | Report abuse |
    • Joe

      To FORMER MARINE: "Please, please, please leave the military alone." You talk about how thick-skinned military personnel is, yet you end your tough guy spew with this whiney little plea? As a former marine myself, I find that hilarious.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • Shhhiver

      Oh please, why is there always a bleeding heart when somene screws up!? He made a really bad decision and got busted and he shouldn't be in his high ranking role if he doesn't understand that posting such off-colour videos, no matter how well intentioned, could be seen as highliy unprofessional, hurtful, demeaning and not funny by at least some people who would be in the audience. In the real world, would you get away with this if you did it at your place of work and got caught? Not in my industry (business/finance)...this would be a cause for instant firing. So he needs to suck it up and learn a lesson here instead of trying to make excuses. Whether his bosses knew about it or not, no one was twisting his arm to do the wrong thing!

      January 31, 2011 at 2:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Joe from CT, not Lieberman

      Here is my problem with this whole fiasco. Honors and I were both in the Navy during "Tailhook" and the Ollie North fiascoes. I learned from them. He, apparently, didn't.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Wzrd1

      I DID see the videos. They were NOT safety briefings, educational attempts or health and welfare related.
      They were a crude attempt at humor that is illegal and against Navy regulations AND the direct orders of the Secretary of the Navy.
      Hence, he knew better, those senior officers knew better and I'm REAL sure they knew about them.
      If our senior officers can't follow their damned orders on something as simple as this, HOW can they be trusted with some of the most destructive nuclear forces on the planet?
      Orders are orders. If they're lawful, which they were, EVERY service member is expected to obey them. They don't have to LIKE them, just obey them.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • NavyVet

      Remember Lieutenant William Calley and what happened to his commanding officer... This is now were as bad as that one but I said once before where was the Captain of the of the ship when he was the XO, you remember the Captain his boss the guy who runs the ship? You will not see anyone else get hung out for this because they are all in the CYA club. People need to remember the Capitan of the ship is responsible for everything that goes on and you will never be able to convince me he knew nothing of this when it was going on.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • danny d

      Sirena you are the cry baby here, if you are offended by that video you pry should not be in the military to start with.... if you cant handle a joke how ya going to handle being shot at? ppffft get a life find something else to complain about

      January 31, 2011 at 2:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • NavyDiver

      Sirena: Ex navy and I agree with Former Marine. Cant have thin skinned military personel. You must have no idea of military life. Have more respect for someone putting their life on the line for your freedoms.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • JPS

      Former Marine's comments above hit it right on the head. There are way too many thin-skinned whiney people out there ready with a complaint on what‘s politically correct or should be. I've seen the videos and know for a fact it’s highly doubtful the ship's Captain & Strike Group Admiral didn't see or know about them. The XO aired these to help deflect a difficult situation, to help ease stress on his fellow shipmates during a wartime deployment. Whether you agree or not with the XO's sense of humor is irrelevant, his intent should be the question. CNN aired a segment on this topic on John King Live (who I think is another thin-skinned whiner). In the discussion, King had two guests, a former female officer and a former enlisted male chief who served with CAPT Honors. Both defended his intentions thoroughly, not necessarily agreeing with what they found humorous, they both know and agreed with the purpose. I met CAPT Honors while he commanded the Enterprise and I found him to be an excellent Navy Officer and a very friendly man. I may not share the same sense of humor as the Captain but I support his intentions and his dedication to his personnel. It’s a real shame that a 26-year career of honorable service to the United States ended because of this. To those whiney folks I say this to you; before you have the right to whine again about what should be politically correct and such, step up and serve your country. Otherwise, you’re just not worth listening to.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • Duts

      I love how our leaders can lie about going to war, spend zillions of dollars, kill people and almost bankrupt America then go back to their ranch and sip lemonade while a ahrd working very respectable officer of the Navy who cares deeply for his country and his staff, who makes a few SNL skits to boost morale gets canned. So now that these videos are NOT acceptable can we now go and get Cheney and Bush, and hang them for their treasonist acts? Forked tongue MF's.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sirena

      All of you that disagree with me need to reacquaint yourselves with something called conduct unbecoming of a gentleman. You follow the rules. No ifs ands or buts. Its not a question of being thick or thin skinned. Its a question of respect. If you cannot respect the people around you you have no business being in charge.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • John Lubeck

      Vaughan, you are sadly misled. After serving in the US Navy for more than 8 years, I can tell you that I have no doubt what-so-ever that Captain Honors is telling the truth – that pretty much everyone in his chain of command above him knew about the videos. The US Navy is a rabidly conservative organization staffed by the goodest of the good old boys. The "tacit approval" he refers to is the proof of this. But you are misled in that the man that engendered these videos is not worthy of you sympathies. As a leader who is supposedly serving in the "finest traditions" of the US military, his actions are sleazy, disrespectful and as the latest Navy statements more accurately suggest, indicative of poor judgment not befitting someone entrusted with the 5000 lives on an Aircraft Carrier.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • Lefty

      Sirena, if you're wondering why no one agrees with you, it's because you're wrong.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:53 pm | Report abuse |
    • JackieInDallas

      I HAVE seen one...you can find at least one if you look on the internet.

      As a former military brat, and as a Vietnam era veteran, I can say that what I saw was offensive. Imagine giving a 12-year old boy a video camera and the freedom to be crass, and you will come close.

      I am not at all surprised that senior officers knew about what Honors was doing and did nothing or tacitly encouraged him. Senior officers are like anyone else...unless and until it bites them in an inconvenient place they more or less ignore it. Senior officers knew about the Tailhook scandal for YEARS, and the fact that women officers and enlisted personnel were being regularly harassed, but until someone risked her own career and went very public with it, it was tolerated. And the fact of the matter is, until the Navy personnel under Honors were either out of the service, or high enough in rank that going public was not going to derail their own careers, you wouldn't seem most of them risking their rank and performance ratings by going public.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • Aloisae

      If Commander Honors' superiors did know about the videos and given him encouraging feedback, then that means the investigation should include a query into the their culpability. It does not, however, in any way excuse or explain his role in their production and distribution or lessen his culpability. He doesn't appear to be claiming he was under direct orders to make the videos raunchy and offensive.. just that he wasn't directly forbidden from doing so by his superiors. This doesn't say much for his common sense or compliance with Navy regulations.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pips

      The issue is not what the videos were of. The issue is of discipline, and nothing more. No one in the chain of command should have been making these, nor allowed them to be made. If they knew about them, they should have stopped them. If high ranking officers cannot show any sort of discipline, what does this say about the troops below them and the tax payers who fund them? They are in service to protect this country and the citizens that pay for them to do that job. The people above him need to be removed all down the line.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken

      Former marine is right Sienna. Our fighting men and women need to be tough beyond getting 'offended' by every damn thing as if bullets and IED's weren't enough. There is a code of honor, and our service men and women uphold that, but the military is also a culture and can't be expected to be statues with guns in hand lacking of personality. If that's what you wish, look to China and NK where their military are drone like.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Kevin

      I thought they were juvenile and showed really poor judgment, which is probably the reason the Navy decided to remove him, not an PC-BS.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • anamerican1954

      Serena: there are many service members in my family, former and current. I have worked as a civilian in public safety. You are absolutely correct with what you are saying.

      My own opinion: Those who readily give the moral high ground away are not America's greatest heroes.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dubhly

      as a former military member i think his actions are perfectly fine for a comedian. I wasnt aware of any of the branches of the United States military that hired comedians to be in charge of billions of dollars of equipment, and peoples lives. He Honors wants to entertain, perhaps he should join the USO.
      sierrena, your right. His form of humor, whereas many may find funny, does not need to be used in the manner it was. The people on here that are telling you your wrong, and that the military needs to be thick skinned are probably the same ones whining about the DADT repeal. I know i see ALOT of marines whining about that one.
      I also agree that he is being scapegoated, and that those above him are just as culpible, however, as many here has said this is the military, and they carry their own culture. the brass doesnt pay the same price, he just wasnt brassy enough.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:29 pm | Report abuse |
  2. Denman

    I agree. The media (as always) blew this story waaaay out of proportion, distorted the facts and generally did their usual hatchet job when it comes to reporting things about the military. As a verteran of 21 years in the Army, I saw this happen all to often during my career. One of the Navy's best & brightest is getting hosed by the cowardly men who dare to call themselves "Leaders".

    January 31, 2011 at 12:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • USNavySquid

      He wasn't very bright. He built his boat. Now he can sink in it.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • Wzrd1

      Denman, I put in over 27 years and only recently retired. He had orders, direct from the Secretary of the Navy that such things are NOT to be done.
      He built his boat, he drilled the holes in the bottom, now he can command a desk.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ross

      I wonder why you think this loser is so special? Perhaps it's low functioning service members like yourself that should take a look inside!

      January 31, 2011 at 3:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • John Lubeck

      Denman makes interesting accusations about the usual fall-guy – the horrible media. But you never bother to mention a single place where the facts presented are not accurate. If you were in the military for 21 years, I'm glad you are out and no longer represent the United States in an official capacity.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • mikemazzla

      LOL blame the mdia.. ? The dude got reprimanded when this video came to light and from what I can see all the media did is report the story.... why blame the media.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:17 pm | Report abuse |
  3. CSD

    Stand up guy all the way around.

    January 31, 2011 at 12:56 pm | Report abuse |
  4. Brad

    This guy got screwed.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • Health Teach

      I know I'm going to take a lot of heat for this, especially since I'm a woman–but no one made these people who are complaining enter the Navy to begin with. If they didn't want to enter a "good ole boys club" then they shouldn't have. If a woman or gay man can't hack it, too bad, but the truth of the matter is that most of the enlisted men and women thought the videos were funny. Whether people like it or not, it's the middle and lower class men and women signing-up to defend this country, and as a rule, we're not always the most "politically correct." If you want the "politically correct" saving your butts, look out, because those folks tend to be pacifistic.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:33 pm | Report abuse |
    • Rob

      Health Teach. Agreed. You might not be PC but your real world honest.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ross

      Health Teach – I wonder if your song would have changed if it were women bashing instead of gays.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • Patrick

      hey, HealthTech, I'll at least give you credit for recognizing in advance that your comments would bring some abuse, but your credit stops there. Just because it was a "good ol' boys club" doesn't mean that it SHOULD have been a GOBC, and the old rules shouldn't have been there either. Women and gays didn't join the GOBC Navy, they joined THEIR Navy, you know, the Navy that they should have had the right to be in all along!! By your logic, blacks should still be drinking from separate water fountains. Sorry, I agree that sometimes we get carried away with our political correctness but this certainly doesn't seem to be the case and, woman or man, it should be real easy to see the light here. Keep in mind, those "good ol' boys" don't stay in the Navy forever and, when they get back into the real world, we don't want them to be confused about how those of us out here in the real world should be treating each other.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • NavyDiver

      Health Teach: Spot on. Could not have said it better...

      January 31, 2011 at 3:25 pm | Report abuse |
  5. descarado

    Captain Honors was the victim of cowards and political correctness. Unfortunately, the cowards are still in command at the highest levels. Let's hope they never see the battlefield.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • steve

      Officers are cowards wrapped up in politics. This guy would have sold someone out to keep his job. An officer commits a crime they are reduced in rank by ONE grade and force ably retired. Enlisted commit same crime they do hard time and reduced all the way to e-1.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • David

      Steve – by your logic if a colonel is found guilty of larceny he is reduced to Lt colonel and should now resign because his career is over – if an E-7 is found guilty of the same larceny he is demoted to E-1 and goes to Leavenworth.

      Somehow I don't think the UCMJ works that way but you go ahead and believe what you will.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Report abuse |
  6. Philip

    Just because others knew of videos of "simulated rectal exams" and "anti-gay slurs" doesn't make it OK to broadcast them. Just like the soldiers in Iraq who had pictures of themselves ramming broomsticks up prisoners behinds wan't ok, even if the leadership knew of, and approved of this sickening behavior. And the old "I was ordered to do it" excuse was dispatched long a go during the Nuremburg Nazi trials. Being ordered to carry out inhumane acts against fellow human beings is no excuse to do it. Off to Leavenworth for two years should do it. (and we all know that our leaders who get busted don't go to prison, so forget trying to prosecute them)

    January 31, 2011 at 1:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • Brian

      So making inappropriate videos should be 2 years in jail? Well I think making stupid comments on CNN should be at least 5 years...go report to prison shipwreak.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jim

      Philip,
      I'm not saying the videos are appropriate, but comparing the offense to those of the Nuremberg trials is ridiculous. He made tasteless and demeaning videos. The Nazis killed people. Those two things aren't really in the same ballpark. He didn't think that his videos would cause harm, whereas Nazis were knowingly taking lives. As a commanding officer, he should have exercised better judgement, but putting the guy behind bars is a bit much.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • Patrick

      I agree with Jim, this isn't a case calling for jail time but it is nevertheless inexcusable. After the whole Tailhook fiasco, I just can't believe that so many people involved were still blind to the real issues here. I have no sympathy for Honors but I can't believe that there wasn't more discipline spread around because they still haven't learned.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • JT

      If you're trying to compare satire with actually raping a prisoner, then you need to quit now before you dig the hole any deeper. If you can't tell the difference between actual harm and someone's feelings being hurt then likewise, quit now.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:31 pm | Report abuse |
  7. Jay Williams

    There will be a purge of many senior military officers thanks to the repeal of DADT, which will resemble the post-Tailhook witch-hunt of the early 90's (Clinton years). The Enterprise CO is only the tip of the iceberg. Military readiness will be degraded for a generation. Gates and Mullen are to blame and should resign themselves.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • USNavySquid

      I disagree with you on every point.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jonathan

      I can make comments without any facts too. You're wrong...I have no way of backing it up but it's true.

      January 31, 2011 at 2:18 pm | Report abuse |
  8. John

    My firiend you have been set up. Somebody wants you out of the way so they can get promoted. That my friend in the politics in the military.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:08 pm | Report abuse |
  9. tom

    i just think its stupid that hes going through all of this just because some reporter cant keep her nose out of his business

    January 31, 2011 at 1:10 pm | Report abuse |
  10. JayT

    Of course they knew. They'd be derelict of duty to not know.

    The Navy has a loooong historical tradition, if you will, of producing "comedic" videos. Google "USNA Call on me (USNA style)" and check out that and all the other amusing USNA youtube videos and you'll soon see that's truth. This sort of indoctrination starts in the Naval Academy itself; thus most Officers are not only inherently familiar with such, they're a bit partial to them as well. Humor goes a long way in stress reduction and moral boosting.

    Honors shaming was nothing but a political power play by someone higher up; however he did make one very LARGE mistake. One that few Officers would make in his stead. While Officers make joke around with the peers and enlisted do the same with their counterparts, it is extremely bad form, and asking for trouble, for an Officer to cross the line sharing this sort of indecent humor with enlisted personnel. That's something that's just not done.

    So, while I feel for the guy...and it really sucks that some a$$hat used this for his own personal gain, Honors is, at least partially, responsible for the position he finds himself in today. Honestly though, reprimands and repercussions should run right up the chain of command now that this scandal has broken in the national arena.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • USNavySquid

      Where's your evidence that someone gained from this personally? The video was leaked to the Virginia Pilot News. It could have been done by any of 5000 sailors on board that ship or any of the 10's of thousands that are family and friends of the crew. I agree with the rest of what you posted

      January 31, 2011 at 1:15 pm | Report abuse |
  11. Corbijn

    I've seen the video & although it was done in poor taste, this response is too much. These kinds of video's are constantly done by those in the military. Why do they do this? It's probably to loosen up doing one of the most dangerous jobs in the world; getting killed is considered part of the job. We all see movies like The Hangover or watch stuff like Monty Python. They just did their own thing & who hasn't done something a little tasteless on a home video or something like that? Give these guys a break.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • jeff

      most home videos are not broadcast to over 3,000 other people.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:38 pm | Report abuse |
  12. paulbmro

    See top 10 movies of Bread Pitt at moviesfan.eu/related-top-list/94-top-10-movies-of-brad-pitt

    January 31, 2011 at 1:14 pm | Report abuse |
  13. Time

    This is what you're going to get with gays ni the military. It will get worse, guaranteed.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jonathan

      What did gays ni the military have to do with this?

      January 31, 2011 at 2:20 pm | Report abuse |
  14. jeff

    Having been in the military myself I know how those at the top always seem to survive while those below take the fall. It doesn't matter who knew about the videos, they were in questionable taste (it doesn't take "the media" to blow that out of proportion. You can see them on You Tube). A senior officer( and most credible junior officers) knows better than to risk his/her career by making tasteless videos under the guise of promoting morale. If he doesn't know better perhaps he is not the best candidate to take command of a multi million dollar vessel with over 3,000 sailors on board.

    January 31, 2011 at 1:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • RS

      Slight correction:

      "... he is not the best candidate to take command of a multi BILLION dollar vessel with over 5,000 sailors on board."

      January 31, 2011 at 1:55 pm | Report abuse |
  15. Philip

    Since when are war mongers concerned with people's feelings?

    January 31, 2011 at 1:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • Rob

      That is offensive. Those warmongers protect fools like you from the other real warmongers in the rest of the world. Coward.

      January 31, 2011 at 1:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jonathan

      Rob, I agree with most of what you said but our warmongers are just as "real" as anyone elses...

      January 31, 2011 at 2:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • NavyDiver

      War mongers...You need a reality check, you need to go live in countries that have War Lords. Why dont we bend over and let the fanatic regimes attack our homeland? As civized people we should not be having wars, but with people still wanting to harm America I shall be glad to take up the "war monger" name to protect your worthless a$$.

      January 31, 2011 at 3:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jonathan

      A warmonger is a warmonger, Navydiver. That's like saying that since man A killed one person and Man B killed another person their not both murderers.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jonathan

      Oh, and Navydiver, why the personal insult. You would actually say that there are no warmongers in our military. I think you misunderstood what I said. I did not call our entire military warmongerers. I simply stated that we have our share...can you deny that? I don't think so. And I did agree with the first part of Philip's statement. Why don't you read my entire statement in context next time you illiterate.

      January 31, 2011 at 4:40 pm | Report abuse |
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