The five things you need to know about the HPV debate
Gardasil is one of the FDA-approved vaccines to protect against the types of HPV that cause most cervical cancers.
September 14th, 2011
02:18 PM ET

The five things you need to know about the HPV debate

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has suggested that parents have their middle-school-aged daughters vaccinated against a sexually transmitted disease closely linked to cervical cancer.

The human papillomavirus is the most common STD, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the second leading cause of female cancer mortality worldwide, according to the World Health Organization. There are currently two FDA-approved vaccines - Gardasil and Cervarix - to protect against the types of HPV that cause most cervical cancers.  While each vaccine uses different substances to rev up the immune system, both are given as shots and must be received in three doses over a six-month period, according to the manufacturers.

That's nothing new.

1. So, why is there such a debate swirling around the issue? Well, politics.

You've probably seen headlines about the HPV vaccine for years now, so what's new? A bigger spotlight, essentially, and the vaccine has come up amid jockeying for the GOP presidential nomination.

The debate over the use of the HPV vaccine - and specifically how it is given and who can mandate it - became a hot topic after some tense exchanges during Monday’s CNN/Tea Party GOP debate.

GOP presidential contender Rep. Michele Bachmann challenged one of her rivals for the Republican nomination, Texas Gov. Rick Perry, on his 2007 executive order that would have required Texas schoolgirls to receive vaccinations against HPV. Bachmann suggested the governor acted for political reasons, noting that the maker of Gardasil - the only Food and Drug Administration-approved HPV vaccine at the time – contributed to his campaigns, and that his former chief of staff lobbies for the company. She also said the drugmaker, Merck & Co., stood to make millions of dollars because of the order.

Truth Squad: Was Bachmann's claim about Perry's mandate for political reasons true?

Bachmann’s challenge came as candidates discussed the pros and cons of executive orders, and when and how the president should use one.

Perry said during the debate that if he could do it over again, he wouldn’t use an executive order, but would work with the legislature.

2. OK, wait. What actually happened in Texas?

Since 2006, 19 state legislatures have attempted to pass legislation that would mandate HPV shots for school, after the CDC recommended that parents be advised that the shot was a good idea and a way of preventing cervical cancer.

Perry took that one step further. In February 2007, he signed an executive order directing the state Health and Human Services commissioner to mandate HPV vaccinations for all girls before admission to the sixth grade. Perry at the time released a statement saying that the vaccine "provides us with an incredible opportunity to effectively target and prevent cervical cancer.”

Texas' rules were to take effect in September 2008. However, the Texas Legislature passed a bill overturning Perry's order in April 2007. Perry declined to veto the bill, which went into effect in May 2007, killing his order.

3. Politics aside, what are the health concerns?

We've been vaccinating kids - by mandate - for school for years.  And for all of those vaccines, parents have the ability to opt out. Again, that's nothing new.

But public perception is changing.

The debate over vaccinations picked up steam after concerns and arguments over whether childhood vaccinations were linked to autism or other diseases became another hot topic. Some were quick to warn of harmful side effects. And then, some medical journals retracted studies linking the two.

Many advocates against vaccinations still said that not enough was known and stood by the idea that there was a connection.

During Monday’s debate, much of the brouhaha over the HPV vaccine centered more on how Perry approached the issue than the vaccine itself. After the debate, Bachmann did touch on whether the vaccine was safe: She said parents told her that the vaccine had made their children sick.

But when it comes to the HPV vaccine, the CDC breaks it down pretty easy: It is safe and can go a long way in preventing a deadly cancer. The CDC says studies of the vaccine "showed no serious side effects," but "common, mild side effects included pain where the shot was given, fever, headache, and nausea." The CDC has said that if you get sick after the shot, it's a coincidence, not cause and effect, CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reports.

Then there's the issue about the age of vaccination.

Middle school children are the targets of the vaccine, and there are some concerns about whether they should be vaccinated at an age when many may not be sexually active. And in some conservative areas, there is concern that the vaccine might encourage children to have sex at an earlier age.

4. So what do the vaccines do?

The FDA has licensed two HPV vaccines recommended by the CDC: Cervarix and Gardasil.

So what are the similarities? According to the CDC:

■ Both vaccines are very effective against HPV types 16 and 18, which cause most cervical cancers. So both vaccines prevent cervical cancer in women.

■ Both are very safe.

■ Both are made with very small parts of the human papillomavirus (HPV) that cannot cause infection

■ Both are given as shots and require three doses.

And what are the differences? According to the CDC:

■ Only one of the vaccines (Gardasil) protects against HPV types 6 and 11 - the types that cause most genital warts in females and males.

■ Only Gardasil has been tested and licensed for use in males.

■ Only Gardasil has been tested and shown to protect against cancers of the vulva, vagina and anus.

■ The vaccines have different adjuvants, substances that are added to increase the body's immune response.

(You can read more about HPV and the vaccines from the CDC here.)

5. Where do things currently stand across the country with regard to the vaccine?

Of the 19 states that tried to pass legislation mandating vaccination for children to attend school, only two passed the legislation. (You can see a full list of the attempted bills in each state here.)

Only Virginia and Washington, D.C., have passed measures to require the mandate. In Virginia, the legislature tried to reverse the mandate. The state's House passed the reversal, but the bill was killed in a Senate committee, so the mandate still stands.

Even there, where this is a mandate, it appears that more families are choosing to opt out of the program than to take part in it.

"Just 17.3 percent of eligible girls had received the first of three vaccinations, as envisioned by the law, at the start of this school year," according to Rosalind S. Helderman, writing for The Washington Post in February. "Only 23 percent of this year's eligible sixth-graders in the District have received the vaccine."

soundoff (736 Responses)
  1. Chuck

    Opinions stated here are ridiculous; the original study linking autism to vaccinations was sponsored by a law group, never published in a good journal and has many followers because parents are desperate. I can't blame them for following their hearts but science and truth stick out for those not stubborn and blinded by political bias or their own ignorance. I will give my kids all the vaccenations currently recommended by the CDC. Why? Its run by Doctors and Scientist and they gave a suggestion to Perry out of logical and scientific reasoning, not politically motivated.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:10 pm | Report abuse |
  2. ILLINI04

    I'm not sure why they would mandate this beings it doesn't always work! I had the Gardasil shots and I still ended up with cervical cancer due to HPV and I am not the only one. I know quite a few of my friends who had the shots and they still ended up with it too.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jessica

      Then you obviously got the HPV strains that the vaccine doesn't protect against.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • GOP Logic

      hun, if you have been vaccinated and still have gotten HPV you had it before your vaccination. Furthermore, you are telling me you have CERVICAL CANCER? just a little math... the drug was first approved in june 2006... you got vaccined the day after approval WHILE in 6th grade, which means you are now in 11th grade, had time to contract HPV and it developed in record time.

      or you are just a lying sack of $*$&$&#

      September 14, 2011 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • Tom

      Isn't this vaccination a recent development and targeted to young girls for prevention? How is it that you could have had it provided you, and then you got HPV? How old are you, and when did you get the vaccination? Something doesn't add up here.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eminemily

      There are many differents strands of HPV. Some cause gential warts, some cause cancer, etc. The HPV shots do not protect against all strands of HPV. If you did develop cancer post- HPV shot, it was a strand that isn't covered by the shot.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • FRANK

      ILLINI04 I hope you do know that the vaccine does not cover all HPV genotypes that can cause cervical cancer....There are 9 more high risk HPV genotypes the shot does not even cover...You can still get cervical cancer even though you get the shot... Hence the reason to continue to get an annual pap smear. The shot does cover the majority of cervical cancers that are caused by HPV 16 and 18, but it doesn"t cover the other 9 high risk HPV that can cause cancer... Also no vaccine gives total immunity to everyone...Not even a polio vaccine .....

      September 14, 2011 at 5:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dan445566

      You did not contract HPV and develop cervical cancer in the past 5 years, and neither did "quite a few of" your friends. Even if you've had HPV for decades, the chances of it causing cervical cancer are rather slim. The odds of you getting this vaccine as a teenager, contracting HPV anyway, and then having that HPV cause cervical cancer - all in a span of 5 years, are zilch. You're saying not only that this happened to you, but that it happened to your friends as well. This is the current state of the Republican party in this country. Lie, lie, lie, and when someone calls you on it lie even more. I thought conservatives claimed they had the moral high ground. You're nothing but a bunch of liars who will do anything to get your favorite liar in the White House. You are ruining this country. If Michele Bachmann becomes this next president, she'll be the last one this country ever has. You seem to think this is a fun sport, spreading lies and gaining support for your "side". What bothers me most is the idiots who fall for it.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:45 pm | Report abuse |
  3. Jj

    this is all scare tactics and money folks. just follow the money trail like everything else in thiS country

    September 14, 2011 at 5:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • HuH

      Really??? Follow the money? So what you are saying is drug makers should do this for free? All the researchers who developed this drug should work for free? Maybe we should just roll back the clock and live in a time when all these phangdangled convienances like medicine did exist.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:34 pm | Report abuse |
  4. Charuz

    For those who use religion as a reason not to vaccinate: why would god give us the brain to create such a treatment if we weren't supposed to use it?

    September 14, 2011 at 5:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • leeintulsa

      The same could, and should, be said about abortion and stem cell research.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dylan

      GOP/Teaparty = The world is flat and our heads are burried in the sand taking us back to the dark ages.

      What parent would NOT have their daughter vacinated if it meant that down the road she would be protected from a strain of cancer? The logic in some of your arguments are very backwards. Sad.

      September 14, 2011 at 6:01 pm | Report abuse |
  5. Speedy

    Seems to me that most mandated innoculations are for communicable diseases. This does not seem to fit that bill. ???

    September 14, 2011 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • GOP Logic

      HPV is a communicable disease. HPV causes 99% of all cervical cancer. Cervical cancer kills approximatley 1,000,000 women globally per year.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • synp

      @GOP logic: Speedy has a point. If you vaccinate children against chicken pox, they will not bring that disease into school, and that way we won't have kids missing about a week of school each.

      STDs are communicable, but there are several easy ways of avoiding them. You don't just get them because a classmate has them. Free countries should be minimalist in what they mandate, even if it's a good idea.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Johan S

      YOu can get an STD via accidental exposure to blood or via r.ape. How can you guarantee against not having accidental exposure besides by locking yourself in a room 2/47?

      September 15, 2011 at 4:12 am | Report abuse |
  6. HuH

    I wonder if Bachmann has issues with the polio shot? I hope people see her for what she really is. Perry tried to do the right thing and gets hammered for it. Lets go back and see who HER donors are?

    September 14, 2011 at 5:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • GOP Logic

      republicans are attaching a stigma to cervical cancer because it is caused by HPV (an STD). Basically, it is their fault for being a whoor.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • JoAnn

      Are you real? HPV vaccines are nothing but a lie, and they do not protect or guarantee against getting cancer. If there is one time I will claim religious beliefs, this is it and I do not even have a religiion. HPV vaccines are for those that have been brainwashed by the GOP.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • responsibility

      JoAnn, you clearly have no clue. To examine the data yourself, please visit PubMed (just Google it) and search under "Gardasil". Read the papers.

      FYI, no one has ever "guaranteed" complete freedom from cancer. Nothing can do that. Gardasil will certainly protect your children from warts and cancers more effectively than hoping they will stay celebite. I'm glad you aren't my mother and I wish Gardasil was around when I was younger. FYI, most active people will have had at least one strain of HPV in their lifetime. Look that up too on PubMed under "HPV epidemiology". It'll open your eyes.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:46 pm | Report abuse |
  7. WL

    Come on chuck, don't be naieve; the drug companies spend millions lobbying states to mandate their vaccines. Look at Merck and the varicella (chickenpox) vaccine (not to mention the millions it spends with the scare tactic commercials of kids dying of chickenpox). I worked in the vaccine part of a major pharma company, and we had a major effort to promote mandating of our vaccines worldwide, includinglobbying major national laboratories. Nothing deceptive or wrong, necessarily, but just a recognition that far more than scientific and medical judgment factors into the decision.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • GOP Logic

      thats why we rely on the FDA to determine if the drug is #1. SAFE #2 EFFECTIVE

      This gov't agency cuts through all the crap, the marketing, and supposedly has no monetary 'dog in the fight'. Funny how government agencies are on our side (don't tell the teapots)

      September 14, 2011 at 5:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • WL

      that a vaccine is "safe and effective" says nothing about whether it should be mandated or not, which is th issue I thought we were debating here.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • GOP Logic

      no, you implied that merc or other pharma are guilty of shamelessly promoting their products as an independant, stockholder owned, for profit business. Of course they want to sell more.

      That is why the gov't does an independant study over many years prior to approval.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • WL

      True GOP, but the decision to mandate any vaccine or diagnostic procedure (such as before a marriage license will be issued) is not made by the FDA. My point is, even if the vaccine is both safe and effective, the "shameless promotion" (your words) by the manufacturer is often what seals the deal. It's not necessarily what's best for the patient, but what's best for the industry. Not that I think anyone, including the pharma company, is out to harm anyone (and FDA approval is a good backstop to this), but there is often a "what would it hurt" mentality when it comes to promotion.

      September 14, 2011 at 6:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • Captain Nemo

      Did you ever SEE a kid die of chicken pox (rubella)? Or measles? Ever seen an ADULT with measles? Adults with measles DIE in large percentages of the cases. If they're lucky, they're alive, weakened permanently, and STERILIZED. Ever see an infant with pertussis (whooping cough) or diptheria? Even if they survive, their lives are permanently damaged.

      Please at least RENT a clue. These diseases are preventable, and if vaccines were as dangerous as the looneys say, there would be milions of damaged people around. But there aren't.

      How do I reach those numbers? 300 million Americans, the large percentage of whom have been hit with multiple vaccines (polio, MMR, DPT, etc), without millions (a tiny percentage of hundreds of millions is still millions) of people damaged in the decades since we started this vaccination policy. And that's just the US; add in the total world population of vacinated people and you STILL have a significant lack of damaged people.

      Please please please dont' add to the madness about vaccination. Please!

      September 15, 2011 at 10:46 am | Report abuse |
  8. FRANK

    ILLINI04 I hope you do know that the vaccine does not cover all HPV genotypes that can cause cervical cancer....There are 9 more high risk HPV genotypes the shot does not even cover...You can still get cervical cancer even though you get the shot... Hence the reason to continue to get an annual pap smear. The shot does cover the majority of cervical cancers that are caused by HPV 16 and 18, but it doesn"t cover the other 9 high risk HPV that can cause cancer... Also no vaccine gives total immunity to everyone...Not even a polio vaccine .....

    September 14, 2011 at 5:29 pm | Report abuse |
  9. Yeah Right

    Very Fishy.... Since when does the GOP care about kids – they aren't voters and they're not rich. Something is not right here.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:31 pm | Report abuse |
  10. JoAnn

    This is one of the most stupid vaccines that I have heard about. Not only will my kids not get this, there is no way I would ever abide by the law that requries it. My kids will die one day, and if they get cancer so be it. I will not subject my kids as guinea pigs for big pharma profits that support the GOP. Kids get enough vaccines for contagious diseases, and this is not one of them that can be spread by air of proximity to others. I pity the parents that fall victim to drug companies and are literally brainwashed into thinking their kids are protected. There is no bigger lie, and parents need to wakeup and accept the fact that everyone will die someday. No the benefits do no outway the risks. There are good vaccines and bad ones and this is a definite bad one that is a political lie.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • HuH

      Good dont let your kids have it. When your child is dieing in your arms at least you will have the comfort of knowing you gave the government the finger. GOOD JOB! At least your genetic line will come to end and the world would be a better place.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • responsibility

      JoAnn, you are an example of de-evolution in cultural practices. You were clearly born 500 years later than your time.

      Remember that when your kids contract HPV (and they almost certainly will at some point), they will not only have it, they will give it to others whose stupid parents elected NOT to vaccinate. Good job! Two stars for you.

      Remember that (1) 100% of hetero men hate using condoms and never use condoms for oral because girls don't get pregnant that way. (2) even when your kids get married and even if they are faithful, their partner probably won't be and they won't be safe about it either.

      You have an opportunity to protect your kids. Why on Earth would you choose not to? Your children will be the ones paying for your ignorance. Genital warts are forever and are very disfiguring and are much more common than cancer. You can help protect against that. Why would you choose not to?

      September 14, 2011 at 5:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • Captain Nemo

      Did you vaccinate againt polio? MMR? DPT? What scientific justification did you have for doing (or not doing) those?

      Please don't add to the madness about vaccination. Innocent kids will be injured as a result.

      September 15, 2011 at 10:50 am | Report abuse |
  11. Patrick

    I am with the conservatives on this one. I think we should allow more women to develop cervical cancer, so that more of them die and put men back in the majority. In addition, there is the obvious benefit to the status quo in Health Care in this country, since preventing a deadly, expensive to treat disease would throw off the balance of what these companies take in and shell out. No, preventing diseases is a horrible idea and the government should spend more of its time mandating important things like prayer in school.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:33 pm | Report abuse |
    • GOP Logic

      finallly someone with real sensibility and a head on their shoulders.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:37 pm | Report abuse |
  12. R Burns

    With any substance used for medical prevention and treatment there will be a few problems. Society has to weigh whether it is best for the whole society to allow or even mandate newly acquired technologies. This is no exception. Immunologists will tell you that this vaccine can trigger susceptible individuals into over-reacting with diseases such as lupus or Crohn's disease, just a couple of the severe autoimmune conditions that happens when the body attacks itself. I am one of those individuals, and wouldn't have chosen the side effects if they had been known at the time I was involved in research 20 years ago. Some side effects, such as immediate allergic reactions, are the ones most folks are aware of and most frightened of. However, long term effects are often completely unknown at the time of FDA approval and only come out after decades of use, and after many folks have been harmed. I don't believe the government should mandate vaccines, but there are some I wouldn't have opted out of when my children were younger: polio, DPT, etc. This, however, is one I would not have chosen for my family!

    September 14, 2011 at 5:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Concerned Citizen

      Exactly my point here.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • nkrempa

      S'cuse me, but Crohn's is linked GENETICALLY, not via vaccine reactions. If you have Crohn's, it's quite likely that someone in your family, at some point in history, did as well. Don't go throwing all autoimmune disorders in here to obfuscate the issue, it's completely unnecessary and unethical.

      September 14, 2011 at 6:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • Captain Nemo

      >would not have chosen for my family?

      So, please tell us where you did your clinical research and what incontrovertible scientific evidence led you to this conclusion. And yes, in case you aren't sure, that is meant as ironic.

      If you're basing ANY of your concerns on that idiot MD in England, you've been hosed. And now, so are tyou kids.

      Good job. NOT.

      Please please don't add to the madness about vaccination. Especially if you aren't able to provide useful evidence for you claims. Please!

      September 15, 2011 at 10:54 am | Report abuse |
  13. studdmuffins

    This should be available to all young women but not mandatory.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:36 pm | Report abuse |
  14. MM

    I will decide what vacines I put into my child's body. Not some rich white old men.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • GOP Logic

      --mom? it's me, you kid from the future, i just got diagnosed with cervical cancer, thanks for not giving me the HPV vaccine!!

      September 14, 2011 at 5:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • MM

      GOP LOGIC – What part of my statement did you read that I would not give my child this vacine or any other? I said, I WILL DECIDE! You appear to have way too much time on your hands to be adding your unimportant replies to every comment made.

      September 14, 2011 at 5:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • nkrempa

      MM – I believe the point Logic was trying to make was that, in your oh-so-infinite wisdom as to what your child should or should not be protected against, you (unless you are, indeed, a medical doctor) will most likely make choices based on pure emotion rather than science, along with so many others responding to this article. I only WISH that my insurance would cover this vaccine for my daughter!

      September 14, 2011 at 6:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • responsibility

      MM, you are such a racist. What if they were poor Native Americans recommending the vaccine? Would you find that more favorable?

      You should read up a bit on epidemiology. Vaccinating the whole herd provides a lot more benefit that piecemeal vaccination. Why? No vaccine confers 100% protection and the more people who are vaccinated means the less overall incidence of deasease. That way, everybody gets exposed to very little infectious agent so the vaccines effectively confer protection.

      About rights to choose, in the world of animal research, when a communicable disease is found in a rack of mice, the entire cage is sacrificed and the rest of the rack is quarantined. No investigator has the right to "opt out" their mice on that rack because diseases threaten the entire colony. Nobody has the right to threaten the entire colony by "sparing" their potentially infected mice. While infected people certainly aren't euthanized, it is selfish to knowingly allow infected individuals to spread disease. One person infected with TB typically spreads in to an average of 70 other people during the untreated course of disease. How do you feel about the ability of such an individual to "opt out" of treatment and quarantine?

      Remember, you don't own your children. You are their steward and you should look forward while deciding how best to protect them from real threats. We can knock these strains of HPV back to the proverbial Stone Age if a high percentage of boys and girls get fully vaccinated. That is a worthwhile goal. Think about it.

      September 14, 2011 at 6:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • MM


      September 14, 2011 at 6:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • nkrempa

      @MM – Yes, that's true, I am making an assumption based on the fervor with which you responded to Logic's response. It is that fervor that indicates your likelihood to respond to a vaccination issue on the basis of emotion rather than science. Thus, while still an assumption, it could be considered a logical one. ;D

      September 14, 2011 at 6:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • Captain Nemo

      >I will decide

      Please list, in chronological order, the advanced degrees in medicine or scientific research, that give you the insight to make such decisions.

      What frightens me most is that you tyhink you're smarter than or know more than people who've dedicated their lives to making safe and effecive vaccines. You terrify me.

      September 15, 2011 at 10:57 am | Report abuse |
  15. algernon

    What convinced my family to stay away from Gardasil was my daughter's friend: she got the vaccine and now has debilitating seizures, apparently for life. Coincidence? I doubt it. Listen to drug companies and the CDC at your own risk. There is much the CDC doesn't know.

    September 14, 2011 at 5:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • A Doc

      You're making a classic illogical conclusion without any evidence. Just because a one girl develops epilepsy and received one of the 30 million gardasil doses doesn't mean that the vaccine caused her epilepsy (which has a prevelance of 1/4000). The CDC VAERS reports for gardasil did not report epilepsy or real seizure as a side effect. One thing is for sure, almost every american man and woman including your daughter will contract HPV – did you know that?

      September 14, 2011 at 6:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Captain Nemo

      Life isn't perfect, nothing is 100%. You can do everyting right and get screwed; you can be a sleaze and get along just fine. Life is about trade-offs and scenarios of "best possible outcome for the broadest population", not pie in the sky happy endings. Get over it. Nobody likes it, and my heart (and my charitable actions) go out to the unfortunate (whatever their adversity).

      Some people are going to have adverse reactions. Does that really mean that NOBODY should have the vaccine? Some people react badly to polio vaccine. But an unvaccinated population loses large swaths of the population to polio. The tradeoff is to widely vaccinate and study the outcomes to improve the outcomes, NOT "let's not vaccinate because a few of us will get sick." Ever SEE a kid with polio? Pertussis?

      You terrify me.

      September 15, 2011 at 11:06 am | Report abuse |
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